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Author Topic: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items  (Read 3627175 times)

SirPenguin

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #2010 on: May 07, 2009, 10:57:55 pm »

This might seem like a silly question, but what is the typical procedure to "update" entity positions? Are you tossing them in the raws, or perhaps changing the way they behave? Just curious.
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SirHoneyBadger

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #2011 on: May 07, 2009, 11:34:23 pm »

Toady: "I don't understand the distinction between growth spurts and changing the size.  As far as I know, a growth spurt is a period of time where something is growing faster than it normally does, and you can set up as many of those as you want with the creatures size.  Something like a metamorphosis is much more involved.  We'll have them at some point, but the bodies need to be handled, and that can be involved."

Ok, that's what I want, the metamorphosis thing. Being able to change the size is great, it would just be nice to be able to transform critters into different (potentially more powerful, and maybe even somewhat randomized) forms over time.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2009, 07:56:40 pm by SirHoneyBadger »
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ProfessorA

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #2012 on: May 08, 2009, 03:05:15 am »

If I ever get a "Gregor Samsa has become a giant beetle." announcement I'm uninstalling DF and burning all my Kafka books.
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umiman

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #2013 on: May 08, 2009, 03:18:28 am »

I hated that stupid thought experiment. Goddamn beetle man.

Neonivek

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #2014 on: May 08, 2009, 03:20:30 am »

Quote
burning all my Kafka books.

I thought it was only one Kafka book that dealt with that subject... and apperantly it often boarders on purely metaphoric corrupting the interest in its premise.
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Mel_Vixen

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #2015 on: May 08, 2009, 03:33:23 am »

Wouldnt it be by far easyer to get a existing person as adventurer? I see there some problems too with the differing Personalitys of character and player but that problems could be lowered a bit by some Q&A and selecting a person which fits motly to the Answers.

The retconned history would be much cleaner but wouldnt work for every char. As for example: If you want to play a noble the Game would have to go back centurys back to create history, coat of arms and political tieins (etc).... which could be some interresting game-mode by itself. Playing on a hitory scale by answering questions and making decissions which affect the worldgen.

The classical *lost Memory* start works fine but again the world of Df disturbs that because you could look for people who know you and stuff about you. It works on the other hand for Avatars and by magicans cooked creatures.

The related *from another world* approach works fine as long you dont look for problems with the languages. It would also beg for some kind of *try to go home plot*. So far its a clean and easy way.

Another idea would be the *Surviver* start. Get a person from a reasant War/Pandemia/Ethnical cleaning. All bonds to the past would be severed and your existence does not need any eplaining. And a motivations comes for free. Clean and you can create a hitory mockup by yourself. Players could start at a Orphanage.

There are some other ways to get a player into the story so that it feels like the character had some history and background without retconning to much but this anyway something for the far future.



Apropos far future! There is something i wanted to ask now for some time:

Toady how are you planning the conservations between Player and Person from the DF World? Will it stay the way it is right now or does the player get a more active way to interact say with a Dwarf like with a nother player in a pen & paper game (as the other end of the extreme)?

I dont ask for an entire chatbot, which would be anyway more then awesome with all that personality stuff, but it would be cool to do some everyday chatter without getting "Its nice weather" from every second peasant or asking a farmer if he did see the monster that terrors the place. (That begs for another question: is the time on hold while i talk with someone?)
Some kind of input field could be neat where i can insert maybe a "Name" or a "Keyword" and the Peasent to which i speak gives me his oppinion on this person/theme as long he knows something about said person/theme.
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Sean Mirrsen

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #2016 on: May 08, 2009, 05:13:37 am »

Yeah, I always thought that PlayNow! picking a random peasant in the civ would be more fun. And for specific start, you could have the same Legends screen pop up, with filters by skills. The current system would also remain in place, but would not have the benefit of backstory. I think it's a perfectly reasonable tradeoff - either pick an existing hist.fig. with backstory, or build your own without one.
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Kishmond

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #2017 on: May 08, 2009, 09:38:36 am »

Images on coins? That'd be pretty neat.

Akroma

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #2018 on: May 08, 2009, 09:50:57 am »

Images on coins? That'd be pretty neat.

there are images on coins already, corresponding to the civ that produced them
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Tormy

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #2019 on: May 08, 2009, 01:23:58 pm »

Are you kidding Tormy? With the amount of things people attribute to the Magic Arc... Almost everything in current development is part of the magic arc!

Okay, okay...I was talking about "real magery" actually...you know spells, rituals etc.  :)

Images on coins? That'd be pretty neat.

Huh....what is this have to do with the upcoming version? Do I missed something?  ???
Anyways, images on coins has been suggested already a long time ago. It would be a "kinda trivial" but pretty cool little gameplay element.  :)
« Last Edit: May 08, 2009, 01:28:03 pm by Tormy »
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Zironic

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #2020 on: May 08, 2009, 05:20:23 pm »

It would be funny if people began finding ways to stunt growth. With the already increased dependence on alcohol, it would be like making a new world.

A Brave New World.






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darkevilme

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #2021 on: May 08, 2009, 05:24:40 pm »

I just noticed something from the underground month. Something about underground beast civilizations being able to attack with mounts. Does that mean we can apply arbitrary mounts or pets to sieging armies now? so four armed green giants riding war elephants instead of goblins for those who like challenge?
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Rysith

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #2022 on: May 08, 2009, 05:35:46 pm »

I just noticed something from the underground month. Something about underground beast civilizations being able to attack with mounts. Does that mean we can apply arbitrary mounts or pets to sieging armies now? so four armed green giants riding war elephants instead of goblins for those who like challenge?

Arbitrary mounts already works, the Orc mod uses them to increase Fun. Pets don't work as well, but I imagine they could be hacked in using the new caste system.
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Zironic

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #2023 on: May 08, 2009, 07:26:53 pm »

It would be cool if we could assign different races to castes in fortress mode, that way we could have slaves or captives that do the menial tasks that take up most dwarven time. Allowing us to sacrifice our dwarves in more suitable ways.
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Footkerchief

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #2024 on: May 09, 2009, 01:21:54 am »

The issue with restarting the generator is that you might not want the world to advance by more than a decade every time you play (especially if your characters tend to die immediately), but it would be cool as an option, and it would give you the opportunity to have more impact -- however, most of the impact should be during regular play instead of through a Q&A process, I think, so maybe it's not much different from the retconning approach in retrospect.  With retconnning, you'd still be able to make decisions -- they'd just only be able to seriously affect the other new characters that have been pulled up from your abstract population.  That isn't all that bad, since the populations can have attached historical events, so it can be very thorough with respect to the existing history, and you could meet the real old historical figures, just not have an effect up to the level of, say, killing them or taking their important things.  It could insert new events back into the old histories though.  You'd just not want those to make subsequent decisions seem odd.

An exception to the lack of impact (either desired impact in the restart-generator setup or technically feasible impact in the retcon setup) might be the start scenario, as it could involve some of the main historical figures sacrificing you by dropping you into a cave or something, but that is essentially a restart-generator scenario that has run a very short period of time.

Yeah, starting the generator at birth would be a drag if you wanted the ability to quickly follow up on events that happened in history or fortress mode (or happened to another adventurer).  You can run history for an arbitrary period after retcon... I don't think you'd generally want to retcon a player character after generating its history, though.

I can envision a reasonably graceful way of letting the player choose how much retcon and how much history generation they want, without flat-out telling them "this way is fake, this way is real."  Say on the character creation screen, the game asks for your current age (X), which you can set from 0 to some reasonably high value.  The game then retcons X years of your life, does the Q&A thing as appropriate, presents you with the results, and gives you the option of a) starting now (possibly disabled depending on circumstances, since we all know babies aren't sentient) or b) nudging history forward another year, which will do further Q&A.  So you could roll up a 30-year-old adventurer with no lapse in game time, or wait 16 years to grow up seamlessly interwoven with the game world.

That raises the question, though, of what part of the game world they should be in.  Starting in a city is easy since they're big abstract populations, but I think it's important that the player also be able to insert themselves (as a newborn or whatever) into specific ongoing stories as circumstances allow.  For example, it would be cool to be part of a refugee group from your last fortress, but plopping you down as a newborn would have issues -- there'd have to be the appropriate romances, the player could be forced into certain roles as Heph mentioned (although many players would enjoy that), etc.  Retcon probably wouldn't work at all, unless it was explained as a newcomer encountering the refugees in the wilderness, which might or might not be reasonable depending on the group's isolation etc.  Yeah, there's a lot to tackle there.

Toady how are you planning the conservations between Player and Person from the DF World? Will it stay the way it is right now or does the player get a more active way to interact say with a Dwarf like with a nother player in a pen & paper game (as the other end of the extreme)?

I dont ask for an entire chatbot, which would be anyway more then awesome with all that personality stuff, but it would be cool to do some everyday chatter without getting "Its nice weather" from every second peasant or asking a farmer if he did see the monster that terrors the place. (That begs for another question: is the time on hold while i talk with someone?)
Some kind of input field could be neat where i can insert maybe a "Name" or a "Keyword" and the Peasent to which i speak gives me his oppinion on this person/theme as long he knows something about said person/theme.

There's a lot of dev notes stuff that tangentially imply major changes to conversations, but this one mostly closely addresses your idea:

Bloat201, CONVERSATION UTTERANCE BUILDERS, (Future): When asking specific questions or making statements, much like wrestling, you could set specific parameters. You could set a topic and a question word or your topic and intention and a tone.
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