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[Alfador]

A dragon breathing fireballs down a tunnel entrance would, in the real world, rapidly consume oxygen available for stuff like BREATHING.

Unless the Fireballs weren't fueled by Oxygen.

But Plutonium Dragons only exist in Munchkin!

[Mr.Person]

A dragon breathing fireballs down a tunnel entrance would, in the real world, rapidly consume oxygen available for stuff like BREATHING.

Unless the Fireballs weren't fueled by Oxygen.

A ball of FIRE. I can only assume the fireball is a ball of a burning gaseous hydrocarbon. Since oxygen is required for the reaction to occur, it would use oxygen. There just simply aren't enough other reactive gases with enough partial pressure in air to allow for any other reaction to occur. Even deep in a cave, methane would be about the only potentially concentrated gas, and methane would realistically only exothermically react with oxygen.

[Footkerchief]

I can only assume the fireball is a ball of a burning gaseous hydrocarbon.

The way dragonfire is treated in the raws makes me think it can do lots of things that normal fire can't.

[Jackrabbit]

It's magic, thats all.

Although that may not be the right comparison. Its more, "it's magic, science isn't involved"

[Neonivek]

reactive gases

Well there are two ways around it

You could simply not use a Gas

You can also use a closed system that vents heat

[Mel_Vixen]

Ok to handwave the dragonfire with some biologics and real life chemics:

The fireball is made from mix of 2 substances. The "burning" stuff and a Oxygen supplier (like salpter in black-powder). How this works i will tell you:

The 4 "Kidneys" of a dragon filter very efficently White phosphorus from its bodysystem.

The guts of the dragon produce on the other hand ammonia (which also the cause of the stench of the dragon). Unlike at horses Ammonia isnt waste for a dragon since the saliva-glands at the jaw transforms with the help of  following process:

NaCL + CO2 + NH3 + H2O -> NaHCO3 & Nh4CL

the Ammonia in Ammoniaclorid and Natron - the later gets filtered out aigain. "The Ammoniaclorid" now gets by same glands reacted with

"Sodium perchlorate" (=NaClO₄ is NACL which in the liver got biolectrical oxidated ) to Ammonia perchlorate.

In contact with a reducer - like white phosphorus this stuff reacts violently (look it up on wikipedia )

A bag shortly above the voicebox of a dragon contains the White phosphor which at the dragons bodytemp is liquid. 2 Ringmuskels controll the mass of the exhaled Phosphorus. This ringmuskels also close in some sort of swallow-reflex the bag if the dragon inhales.
The liquid Phosphorus gets mixed in the mouth of the dragon with ammonia perclorat which the saliva-glands there shot out and thanks to the powerfull lungs of the dragon a burning white phosphrous spray get thrown to our dwarfs.

(All reaction work in reallife and are very very dangerous especally ammonia perchlorate -> another vid on youtube for all whose browsers which wont play the first)

[SirHoneyBadger]

That's brilliant, Heph! 


I have a question from another thread--hopefully, it hasn't been asked before:

Will the new creature update (as in: the more elaborate way creatures will be put together,) affect the way fat, bones, and meat are handled and produced by the butcher shop? Will it affect butchering at all?

Also,

Will there (if not by the next update, then ever) be a way to obtain (or even mod in) specific "food" type organs (like liver, kidneys, sweetbreads, etc.), specific cuts of meat, or other special substances (that white phosphorous "pouch" comes to mind), via the butcher shop?

And, does anyone know if it's currently possible to add reactions to the Kitchen, so that in addition to tallow, we might add specific animal-fat derivatives, like lard, suet, etc? Not a big deal, I know, and probably not entirely doable right now, but it would be nice to be able to mod in, someday.

[umiman]

I thought just regular fire from dragons was bad enough, but you're telling me they shoot white phosphorus? As in the "melts concrete" white phosphorus? It would be like a battle between PETA and human rights.

[Zironic]

You could pierce a dragon's glans to set off an inner explosion!

[Vicomt]

You could pierce a dragon's glans to set off an inner explosion!

I hope you mean glands 

[Akroma]

sorry Heph, but just as much as science is your ally, it is your enemy

you say the white phosphorus is liquid at a dragons body temperature, but white phosphorus melts at 44°

at that body temperature, the dragon, assuming it is not a magical entity, is thoroughly dead


it would be easier to assume the phosphorus is not liquid, but rather in a powder form, which should be feasible

[Footkerchief]

you say the white phosphorus is liquid at a dragons body temperature, but white phosphorus melts at 44°

at that body temperature, the dragon, assuming it is not a magical entity, is thoroughly dead

I always knew there was something magical about chickens.  Anyway, whether dragonfire is WP or whatever, the whole breathing fire thing kind of implies an unusual tolerance for high temperatures.

This isn't meant to imply any personal support on my part for the WP idea.

[Tormy]

The problem with multitilecreatures was iirc their movment (see: Boats) and to some extend their pathing.

That's correct...which is why Toady has dropped the idea of multi-tile creatures. [Well..perhaps Toady will be able to solve these problems, so that we will have multi-tile creatures in the future...who knows.  ]

[Akroma]

you say the white phosphorus is liquid at a dragons body temperature, but white phosphorus melts at 44°

at that body temperature, the dragon, assuming it is not a magical entity, is thoroughly dead

I always knew there was something magical about chickens.  Anyway, whether dragonfire is WP or whatever, the whole breathing fire thing kind of implies an unusual tolerance for high temperatures.

This isn't meant to imply any personal support on my part for the WP idea.

wtf ?
at that temperature proteins start to harden
yes, eventhose in your average chicken meat

I am perplexed

[Mel_Vixen]

Even harder is the desert iguana which according to wikipedia (DE) survives a internal bodytemperatur of 47°C with ease . And the a body temp of 50°C ata dragon would be almost handwaveable with speciual proteins and higher inner cellpresure. XD