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[Footkerchief]

Well, you have to admit Toady will have to work on multi-tiled creatures sooner or later. Dragons the size of dwarves and beds the size of dragons is just plain weird on some occasions if you think about it.

Oh yeah, it's probably coming.  The pathing issues that currently make it unfeasible have lots of possible solutions.

As for this [THICKENS_ON_ENERGY_STORAGE] tag, where can I read up on this?

In the raws preview from a couple months back, in "Tissue Templates."  Not much to actually read about, but there's some others like [THICKENS_ON_STRENGTH] as well as the general tissue tags which are all really cool if you're interested in modding the next version or just getting some insight into its mechanics.

[SirHoneyBadger]

Yeah, I'm very excited about the modding to come. Lots of work for me, but a good way to keep busy until I can afford my new computer.

[Zironic]

Larger creatures would either need enemy digging implemented, or better size application. Making a fortress dragon immune by using 1 tile wide hallways would suck. But making it so dwarves can't physically warp through each other like they seem to do currently, could help solve that.

[Solifuge]

Hmm... I could see a lot of multi-tile monster proof tunnel designs that still allowed for High Traffic, but would defend completely against Multi-Tile Megabeasts.

One potential solution could be that a 2x2 Tile Dragon could "squeeze" to 1/2 size in one dimension (1x2/2x1) in order to move through constrictive passageways and smaller spaces. The mechanic is analogous to a 1-tile creature falling prone, "squeezing" against the ground in order to share 1/2 of a tile with another creature.

[Akroma]

actually, saving yourself into a narrow tunnel to escape a dragon is quite the traditional approach

remember smaug

also, remember what he did to the mountain

[Tormy]

Hmm... I could see a lot of multi-tile monster proof tunnel designs that still allowed for High Traffic, but would defend completely against Multi-Tile Megabeasts.

One potential solution could be that a 2x2 Tile Dragon could "squeeze" to 1/2 size in one dimension (1x2/2x1) in order to move through constrictive passageways and smaller spaces. The mechanic is analogous to a 1-tile creature falling prone, "squeezing" against the ground in order to share 1/2 of a tile with another creature.

AFAIK Toady won't implement the multi-tile creature system [probably...]. Just do a forum search, and you will find Toady's answers in regard to the multi-tile creatures.

[Mel_Vixen]

The problem with multitilecreatures was iirc their movment (see: Boats) and to some extend their pathing. We have already 3X3 Wagons which are fairly easy. Problematic are irregular shaped creatures which cant turn on spot. Also the graphical stuff (hahaha) f.E. a giant turtle crossing Z-levels via ramps might be a problem. Snakes and worms thought would be fairly easy because they are very flexible.

edit: Question to toady: Will the stuff made from bones (bolts,(x-)bows) depend on the relativ size of the used bone. For example will be making a bolt from a pikes bone impossible while i still can make (hypothetical) a needle from it?

[Alfador]

Making a fortress dragon immune by using 1 tile wide hallways would suck.

The problem with that being a problem is... it WORKS. It's a realistic solution to the problem! As you said, though, it makes it harder for dwarves to get through. But it is a time-tested tactical strategy to create chokepoints where large amounts of enemy, or large enemy siege vehicles, or in this case megabeasts that are just large, can't get through. If you make your fortress dragon immune by making a long, winding 1-tile entranceway that dwarves can get through but the dragon would have to burrow through several hundred of feet of solid rock to use, then fine. Just watch as it toasts your trade depot while the bulk of your fortress has nothing more to worry about than those Burrowing Diamond Worms.

[umiman]

Perhaps if we allow large beasts to essentially plow through stuff to an extent? So a 1 tile long, 1 tile wide hallway wouldn't be very useful since the dragon will just punch through but a 10 tile long, 1 tile hallway would work.

[Rilder]

Just allow dragons to poke their head in the door way and create one of those hallway fireballs you see in movies?

[Footkerchief]

Perhaps if we allow large beasts to essentially plow through stuff to an extent? So a 1 tile long, 1 tile wide hallway wouldn't be very useful since the dragon will just punch through but a 10 tile long, 1 tile hallway would work.

This would probably have to wait for a more detailed cave-in simulation so that the game could properly guesstimate the structural strength of the bottleneck and decide whether the dragon's strong enough to break it.  Not sure if cave-ins will ever be that good.

[Mel_Vixen]

Somebody had a nice cavein programm already posted on the forums and with the shearforces etc. it wouldnt be a problem to implement some algorithms from architecture systems.
Especally because the number of "parts" in Df is relitivly low thanks to tiles it would be pretty easy to determine if a system can bear this or that stress.

Other games do similiar stuff already for example iirc Bridgebuilder. edit: "bridge it" is the newest spawn of the series.

edit2: Maybe Df would need some new constructions like arches if a better cave in system would be used. It would be fun if your tower build on sand gets blown over by some wind .

[Techhead]

A dragon breathing fireballs down a tunnel entrance would, in the real world, rapidly consume oxygen available for stuff like BREATHING.

[Sean Mirrsen]

It would do that and choke itself out. And if the fortress has no other openings, the dragon will get sucked in and suffocate.

Unless some booze gets in the way... or a particularly drunk dwarf. The resulting explosion will be catastrophic.

[Neonivek]

A dragon breathing fireballs down a tunnel entrance would, in the real world, rapidly consume oxygen available for stuff like BREATHING.

Unless the Fireballs weren't fueled by Oxygen.