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[Neonivek]

Well it depends a Fleshgolem can be made from one dead body but i wouldnt be zomby because the construct replaces the instinct.

Well that and a Flesh Golem is just made out of Body material or in Frankenstien's case it was a crafted body with a brain installed (meaning it is along the lines of resurection)

[Zero]

as Toady is introducing facial paramters and descriptions, and, along with them, horribly deformed dwarves, i suggest another addition to the medical branch:
plastic surgery!
even better! imagine a plastic surgeon having a fey mood!!

[DeKaFu]

as Toady is introducing facial paramters and descriptions, and, along with them, horribly deformed dwarves, i suggest another addition to the medical branch:
plastic surgery!
even better! imagine a plastic surgeon having a fey mood!!

Or a fell mood.



>_>

[Spey]

as Toady is introducing facial paramters and descriptions, and, along with them, horribly deformed dwarves, i suggest another addition to the medical branch:
plastic surgery!
even better! imagine a plastic surgeon having a fey mood!!

Or a fell mood.





>_>

urist cancels file malpractice lawsuit: bled to death.

[Fieari]

Flesh Golems can't be undead because they were never alive they are simply made from once living tissue. They become alive in a few versions thus they are "Living" creatures.

Ghosts arn't undead because they arn't technically dead or alive. They are Non-living creatures.

Lich arn't undead because they are simply alive.

Vampires are a special case and it really depends... They are either Undead or alive.

Zombies are conditional. They are either Animate Dead or Undead. As far as Dwarf Fortress is concerned Zombies are a curse/condition.

Though this changes if by undead your refering to: Kept alive through unnatural means... In which the Liche, Vampire, and Zombie count... Ghost and Flesh Golems don't.

What is your definition of "Undead"?  Wikipedia says: "Undead is a collective name for fictional or legendary beings that are deceased yet behave as if alive. Undead may be incorporeal, such as ghosts, or corporeal, such as vampires and zombies."

Ghosts are undead because they are dead, or come from a being that is dead, yet behave as if alive-- eg, they move around, think, talk, etc.

Liches are undead because they have killed themselves, and thus are dead, yet utilize magic to retain a semblence of being alive-- eg, they move around, think, talk, etc.  HECK! The name "LICH" litterally means "CORPSE"!

Zombies are undead only if they are corpses that are walking around, as opposed to living beings with super-rabies or whatever.  But if they were once dead, and are now walking around, they are undead.

Vampires are traditionally undead, because they come from corpses.  Wikipedia says: "In folkloric tales, the undead vampires often visited loved ones and caused mischief or deaths in the neighbourhoods they inhabited when they were alive."  Now, Anne Rice vampires may or may not be undead, but even her vampires CAN be classified as undead if you assume that they die as a part of the process of becoming a vampire.

I will agree that a flesh golem is not an undead, however, in that a golem is by definition a newly created form of life.  LIFE.  So it isn't dead.  You could, on the other hand, have an undead flesh golem if the original flesh golem is killed, and then either demonstrates a spirit via ghostly manifestion, or is reanimated as a zombie, or is made a lich, or a vampire...

[Granite26]

I think that's what I was saying.  Without the moral aspect of it, grouping things together as 'undead' doesn't have any meaning.   What we think of as 'undead' tends to involve 'things that shrink from holy symbols'  If there's no group of things this works for, why continue to tie ourselves to an arbitrary grouping of creatures?

[Sean Mirrsen]

For one, "the undead" are a valid category for a magic school, Necromancy. It governs stuff that was once alive, became dead, and was then brought to a semblance of life. Golems don't fit in Necromancy (no matter what the Diablo 2's skill tree has to say about it), since they were never alive in the first place, and so cannot be dead. You can animate a bone golem or a flesh golem, but in both cases they are constructs. For some reason I can't remember the school appropriate for golems (was it summoning?), but you can't raise dead golems the same way you can't raise dead summons - their only embodiment was the energy you expended to make them live; take away that energy and the creature disappears as though it never lived. "Things that shrink from holy symbols" works because "holy symbols" work as dispencers of divine energy diametrically opposite to that which holds undead together - i.e. necromantic spells. So, grouping of creatures into "undead" is perfectly acceptable.

[SirHoneyBadger]

As far as something like a flesh golem (in a case where the parts of many corpses are used), I would call that an undead, since you're reanimating dead flesh. You might possibly end up with a case where multiple souls inhabit a single jigsaw-body, which could be very interesting.

Now, if it's flesh that's been grown via, say, a cloning process, then I wouldn't call that an undead, although it's possible no soul would show up to inhabit the body.

So I think the "flesh golem" idea could be an interesting one, with a lot of special cases and different types, especially where the soul and the undead status is concerned.

[Soadreqm]

On the whole undead thing, there are countless ways they can work. Just zombies come at least in varieties of necromantic zombie, spontaneous necromantic zombie, viral zombie and voodoo zombie. And there many ways to approach these. In short, our souls are different.

Not that there's anything wrong about arguing how the undead are supposed to work. Personally I await with curiosity how exactly they are going to turn up in Dwarf Fortress. Judging from some of the power goals, we are going to have fun with them.

If golems turn out to be soulless, unalive blobs of clay/iron/meat not unlike robots, but still able to learn, I think it'd be really cool if it could "grow" a soul, some kind of ghost in the machine, over the centuries, gain some personality, and perhaps eventually really become a sentient being. And then set out on a quest to find the Fairy Queen and become a real boy. That is, if we are going to have golems at all.

[Org]

Questions that I need answered.

Is there going to be a tag for creatures so they are always against a certain race(i.e., make it so they siege and all that)

Are mounts going to be fixed?

[Dwarfu]

Toady, if you're making hospitals zones, for consistency sake, would you consider making ALL rooms zones?  Especially now that you're allowing zones to flood fill.

This is a major interface issue-- inconsistency between different similar activities.  All similar activities really should be performed the same way.

Dwarfu has gained a friend recently.

[Atanamis]

Toady, if you're making hospitals zones, for consistency sake, would you consider making ALL rooms zones?  Especially now that you're allowing zones to flood fill.

This is a major interface issue-- inconsistency between different similar activities.  All similar activities really should be performed the same way.

Dwarfu has gained a friend recently.

You can count me as a third supporter of interface consistency. A bedroom without a bed just becomes a place where a dwarf goes to sleep on the floor. If everything is a zone and zones are properly organized, there are fewer interfaces for new users to learn.

[Footkerchief]

Is there going to be a tag for creatures so they are always against a certain race(i.e., make it so they siege and all that)

Opposite ethics in the entity raws should make it very likely.

Are mounts going to be fixed?

Under Entity Positions, there's "Creature/mount prefs for leaders," so I guess it might get looked at.  How are they broken right now?

[Org]

Well...Dwarves cant use them. Can they? Or adventurers for that matter.

[penguinofhonor]

Only things sieging you can use mounts currently.