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[Warlord255]

Why not "pincer breath"? It breathes pincers... that are on fire.

This is an interesting point, because creatures could conceivably spit globs of a material that ignites at room temperature -- think napalm.  Although I'm guessing burning projectiles and burning contaminants are edge cases that won't be handled properly just yet.

We also don't know if the arbitrary breath weapons have any hitting force with the glob/liquid projectiles. If so, then a sufficiently powerful loogie could decapitate a dwarf.

[Aqizzar]

What I'm wondering is, if something combusts at "room temperature", wouldn't it's 'flame' be somewhere close to room temperature as well?  I mean, there are plenty of substances that can only evaporate at livable temperatures, but I don't think there's any possible substance that would actually ignite at anything less than hundreds of degrees.

Anybody here good with chemistry or thermodynamics?

[Footkerchief]

What I'm wondering is, if something combusts at "room temperature", wouldn't it's 'flame' be somewhere close to room temperature as well?  I mean, there are plenty of substances that can only evaporate at livable temperatures, but I don't think there's any possible substance that would actually ignite at anything less than hundreds of degrees.

Anybody here good with chemistry or thermodynamics?

Lots of powdered metals ignite at or below room temperature and burn much hotter.  Incidentally this is one of the secondary reasons that depleted uranium is used for anti-armor rounds.

I suspect that when things in DF catch on fire, they remain at a hardcoded, universal "fire temperature" until consumed.  It might make more sense to have a material property for the combustion temperature.

[Mel_Vixen]

Combustion means normaly an exothermic reaction. This means reaching ignit temperatur starts the process but after that the process produces its own energy to go on.

You have to part differ between Flamepoint and Ignitepoint. The Ignite-point is the temperatur at which an material ignites itself. The flamepoint is the point at which an stuff starts to burn if ignitet from the outside (for example from a spark)

Whitphosphor ignites at 60°C degree.

Ethanacid has an Flamepoint of only 11°C and Propanal of -40. But they need an spark or what ever for ignition.

Phyrophoric materials (mostly very fine powders) ignite even below room temperature.

Fluor and Hydrogen have an explosiv reaction at -200°. But this is not an oxidation.

[G-Flex]

What I'm wondering is, if something combusts at "room temperature", wouldn't it's 'flame' be somewhere close to room temperature as well?  I mean, there are plenty of substances that can only evaporate at livable temperatures, but I don't think there's any possible substance that would actually ignite at anything less than hundreds of degrees.

Anybody here good with chemistry or thermodynamics?

Combustion is basically just exothermic oxidation, with a visible flame and quick (usually) reaction. If you don't count the "visible flame" and "quick" parts, iron combusts if you leave it outside.

At any rate, if something spontaneously combusts at room temperature, it could still create an extremely large amount of heat. It depends on the reaction.

[Aqizzar]

Yeah, I don't anything about chemistry or metals, so thanks for the good answers folks.

I suspect that when things in DF catch on fire, they remain at a hardcoded, universal "fire temperature" until consumed.  It might make more sense to have a material property for the combustion temperature.

This is exactly what I was getting at though.  I've never noticed whether DF just as a universal temperature for all fires, or if it's based in any way on the combustion point of what's burning.  It certainly looks like the former.  But with all these new physics rules, I hope Toady can com up with a reasonable facsimile of burning effects and temps.

[Footkerchief]

02/07/2009: I started off with secretion of a powder/liquid material covering today. All sorts of contaminant transfer today as well, so things like secreted contact poisons can be set up now, and the slime or gunk can be moved around by wrestling or strikes (items or body parts). Secretion could be easily adapted for things like sweating and so on later (just by adding something like an exertion tag to the secretion), but I'm passing that up for now. I also set up the poison scheduling. There are a few more things on the list (updated) to consider, and then I'll be done with poison for this release.

Shit yes!  The poison-related stuff is really looking amazing.  As if it wasn't enough to have the capability to make demons whose very breath will cause your brain to slowly rot, we can also have giant toads covered in slime that'll knock you out cold if you try to wrestle them.  Of course, the contaminant transfers mean that you can stab them instead, coating your blade with knockout slime that you can use against other opponents.

[Aqizzar]

Which leads to the hilarious problem that the most handy way of getting a poison on your weapon will be by stabbing the creature that secrets it.  How appropriately dwarven.

Ooh, or a contact poison that can't seep through leather.  Coat your gloves with and go on a eye-poking spree where every poke melts flesh from bone.

[Mel_Vixen]

02/07/2009: I started off with secretion of a powder/liquid material covering today. All sorts of contaminant transfer today as well, so things like secreted contact poisons can be set up now, and the slime or gunk can be moved around by wrestling or strikes (items or body parts). Secretion could be easily adapted for things like sweating and so on later (just by adding something like an exertion tag to the secretion), but I'm passing that up for now. I also set up the poison scheduling. There are a few more things on the list (updated) to consider, and then I'll be done with poison for this release.

Plain awesome.

Ok thats now an minor suggestion so please excuse that i do that here.

I think secreation code could also work for fruit/nutbearing trees. The secretion just wouldnt be n spatters of poison. It would rather be n items of Seeds or Fruit.

The only other change would be the harvesting of this fruit and here the woodcutting code could be reworked.

[Arkose]

I think secreation code could also work for fruit/nutbearing trees. The secretion just wouldnt be n spatters of poison. It would rather be n items of Seeds or Fruit.

Giant Honeycombs that secrete honey. AND BEES!

(Plague demon that secretes infected rats? Zombies that secrete worms? I'm liking the idea of a [SECRETE_VERMIN] tag...)

[Dareon Clearwater]

I'm liking the idea of a [SECRETE_VERMIN] tag...

Oh sure, it's all fun and games until the goblin caravan brings a Vile Maggotspewer in a cage, and your cats all start following it around.

And then a dwarf RANDOMLY LOSES AN EYE!

[Areyar]

afaik depleted uranium is not used in AP rounds for its reactiveness, but rather for the high molecular weight of the stuff. denser pellet = smaller impact area and higher kinetic energy (given that bullets have a maximum velocity in air) for a identical caliber round.

--
Toady1:
About slimes and other secretions / contaminants: LUBE.
Have you considdered that they will act as a 'deflecting armour' in wrestling when applied to a bodypart and that a floor covered with goo/blood/vomit will be more difficult to walk/run/fight/stand on because of it's slipperyness? That sort of lubication action effects.

I can imagine after a prolonged fight on a bridge it will be covered in goblin/dwarf blood spatter/pools. And seeing dwarfs and goblins slipping and stumbling into and over each other, occasionally sending one over the edge into the precipe as they bump and slide chaotically.
A string of dangling dwarfs coalesces as they try to save each other by grabbing beards and other extremities.
okay, that last bit is a bit fancyfull.

--
secretions - seeds and nuts ... and sex-spores?
eleminating the conception at a distance is nearly there.
e.g. if male creatures have sexspore covered 'stamen' and females have 'carpels' for recieving them, close proximity and 'contaminant' transfer from male to female will be required.
...now if only dwarves would disrobe for sleeping and had a periodical mutual conjugal-job when married. (as there is, as yet, no behaviour for lust / love / reproduction besides being married)

[LumenPlacidum]

Why not "pincer breath"? It breathes pincers... that are on fire.

This is an interesting point, because creatures could conceivably spit globs of a material that ignites at room temperature -- think napalm.  Although I'm guessing burning projectiles and burning contaminants are edge cases that won't be handled properly just yet.

I tried doing this in the current version with the [WEBBER] tag, and making the webs ignite when they were exposed to air.  It... didn't really work.  The webs that were on the map at the start of a dwarf game ignited and caused massive forest fires (which is a problem this stuff would alleviate), and while I never got one of these creatures to web my dwarfs in dwarf mode, in adventure mode, the webbing was totally inert when it was sprayed out.

[Footkerchief]

afaik depleted uranium is not used in AP rounds for its reactiveness, but rather for the high molecular weight of the stuff. denser pellet = smaller impact area and higher kinetic energy (given that bullets have a maximum velocity in air) for a identical caliber round.

Yes, I made sure to say "one of the secondary reasons" just for you.

[Areyar]

I didn't realize. My appologies for being a smartass.