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[Warlord255]

Consider arbitrary material breath weapons

Ah, so we can have powder poisons that paralyze... used as a breath weapon by dragons exhaling "time stopping hourglass sand" ... :3

If "arbitrary material" can be extended to bodily fluids, I can see some Red Lantern stuff happening.

[penguinofhonor]

I just realized some more uses for the currently-being-worked-on poisons. It's a big wall of text so there's a tldr at the bottom.

Alcohols (and later, drugs) should be counted as a weak poison effect. One benefit would be that this allows us to customize what creatures are resistant to the effects of drugs and alcohol. So dwarves gain no effects from alcohol, but they might have to have a pseudo-poison entry in their raws to show the effects of alcohol deprivation if it ever gains effects beyond unhappy thoughts and slow working (for instance, they could occasionally get dizzy and not be able to walk straight or they could get slowed down in all actions instead of just working).
Humans would have a decent tolerance to alcohol, though it would make them temporarily dizzy and dumb, meaning it would penalize their... *looks up the list of new attributes*... oh damn, this penalizes lots of things. Instead of listing out all the skills (it would penalize almost all of the soul-based ones to some degree), I'll say that mostly it would make them clumsy and dumb, though they'd keep their musicality because everyone likes drinking songs. The US national anthem wouldn't be the same without them. For long-term effects (you see these after a lifetime of alcoholism) alcohol would deal very light brain and liver damage when consumed in large enough amounts.
Goblins would have a higher-than-usual resistance against intoxication and liver damage, but normal resistance against brain damage. I could see kobolds having low resistance against the temporary effects but high resistance against the long-term effects. Or maybe they wouldn't, since they mostly would be resistant to the types of poison bugs use and I really don't think those are similar to alcohol. I like using scorpions for these insect poison examples, but I can't seem to find what makes up scorpion poison and why it's dangerous. Any entomologists want to help me out here? I also can't find out exactly how alcohol effects you on a cellular level, as people only seem interested in the effects. Any biologists with some knowledge of chemistry and much knowledge of near-useless biology facts?

This could also pave the way for new drinks, though they wouldn't be brewed drinks since alcohol is alcohol no matter what the source of the sugar is. Maybe a sugary, sweet drink that gives you temporary infertility or something like that. Unique stuff. Everyone likes unique stuff.

Another benefit from this is that there would force more types of poison, and therefore more fun effects to be around. Imagine a snake that defeated its opponents by injecting concentrated alcohol directly into their bloodstream. In the short run this would cause intense dizziness, vomiting, and all the other effects of drunkenness but more extreme. In the long run, it would damage their brain and liver. The trick to defeating these would be getting a dwarf to fight it, and some dwarves might even keep some as pets.
That's one option, though we could have something else like a mutant tobacco plant that released concentrated carcinogenic toxins into the air when you bump into it. Or a trippy giant scorpion that had LSD in place of the normal scorpion toxins (which, I believe, cause paralysis).

I just realized that this would work even better if poisons were instead turned into a subset of a general Substances raw. Therefore we could have substances with positive and negative effects, like steroids tricking your body into thinking you have an overabundance of hormones. And tobacco could cause slight relaxation (I hear that's the main reason to smoke) along with its negative effects (most of which are long-term), while marijuana would have more potent relaxation effects and might give a small boost to creativity while making the user more hungry (munchies) and would also last longer.
You wouldn't want your soldiers smoking pot and then trying to hug the goblins (your wrestlers already hug goblins, but dwarves on pot wouldn't hug them nearly as "effecively"), but you might be fine with your master engraver smoking a joint and gaining inspiration for a far out, psychedelic engraving.
You could make your soldiers take PCP to go all berserker. They'd become immune to pain and maybe get a strength bonus because they're not holding back, but they'd think they had superpowers and therefore do some very stupid things like ignore your orders to attack from the rear in favor of charging straight into several trolls and a few goblin mace lords.

Oh my, that was a lot to read.

TL;DR: Alcohol and drugs should be weak poisons, poison effects should be created for them should be usable by creatures, poisons should be turned into general substances and allow positive effects as well as negative.

[Larington]

I suppose if we're going to have a variety of venoms and poisons, we'll also need herb gathering to provide a variety of antidotes, anti-venoms and so on and possibly an improved healthcare skill for identifying whats wrong with a person - A useful backup skill to give to your mining characters who have good mining skills but don't otherwise need much else.

As to the lifting heavy things problem, if Dwarves can be described as Super-Dwarvenly-Strong, I think we can probably let the improbability of a dwarf carrying something particularly heavy slide.

Also, is there any particular reason for me not noticing the presence of pigs and sheep for livestock/slaughter purposes in the game (Someones probably created mod files for this but, I dunno, guess I prefer to stick with the original game, alt tilesets aside)?

[Warlord255]

"Positive" poison effects/double-edged bonuses like steroids and "creativity boosters" sounds like a dashing idea.

[Mel_Vixen]

Alcohol at first works by dehydration and replaces water in the cell which needs it for processing. In Nervecells for example this causes to an lower conductivity. As doing this it counts as an Neurotoxin.
 
Like LSD Alcohol leads to an Dopamin release.
 
Alcohol is also an Mitosis-poison (which i didnt see on the list yet) and manipulates the Enzyme processing of the cells. Mitosis-poisons slow down and stop normal growth which would explain an dwarves stature.
 
Ethanal which is the product of the Alcohol processing in the liver, is damn poisonous for the liver.
 
On the long term effects you get an damaged Vitamin B1 procession. In the brain as other Organs Alcohol reacts to Fat-Acid-ethylester which damage the cells.
 
This is what i could gather from different sites and the german Wikipedia.
 
Scorpion poisons are different in theyr poisons but use mostly mixes of Neurotoxins. As generell rule you can say the smaller an scorpion the deadlyer is its stings

[Reyyvo]

off of poison on this post and onto something earlier, idk if toady thought of this or if someone has suggested these yet for fireballs working and fire not being a substance.

#1 The D&D line could be followed with fireballs really being small seeds that explode and then cause damage. that seems different from how you have them so i'm guessing its a no, but its probably worth it to throw out there.

#2 Have the imps throw something thats actually on fire, or somehow a superheated ball of air, skin, a ball of magma (maybe?), that would all have different effects. Even something like having the imps shoot somehow pure oxygen at the subject would be quite interesting from a gameplay perspective.... meaning you'd have to mod in components of the atmosphere etc. which would be bomb.

just a suggestion.

[Dr. Melon]

This is awesome; can't wait to have a real crack at some of the new stuff when this update comes out.
It's amazing! The level of depth into wounds and poisoning is marvellous.

I wonder if you could make creatures with poisonous skin... or poisonous meat; DON'T EAT THE GIANT FROGS, DWARVES! DON'T DO IT! NOOOO!

[Tormy]

I wonder if you could make creatures with poisonous skin... or poisonous meat; DON'T EAT THE GIANT FROGS, DWARVES! DON'T DO IT! NOOOO!

Perhaps it will be possible to create creatures like those. [Venon/Contact poisons] So if the outer skin layer is = given poison type, the skin of the creature should be poisonous. Well perhaps Toady could give us a proper answer, because I am just guessing. I am not sure that a poison can act like a skin layer at all. 

[Footkerchief]

This is awesome; can't wait to have a real crack at some of the new stuff when this update comes out.
It's amazing! The level of depth into wounds and poisoning is marvellous.

I wonder if you could make creatures with poisonous skin... or poisonous meat; DON'T EAT THE GIANT FROGS, DWARVES! DON'T DO IT! NOOOO!

Ingested poisons haven't been mentioned, so while you could probably create a creature with poisonous meat (i.e. muscle tissue made of poisonous material), eating it would probably have no effect.

Making the skin tissue itself poisonous would be pointless.  However, skin poisons would be possible if creatures could secrete a spatter/contaminant/covering onto their own skin, and if those coverings could be transferred during wrestling, etc.

[Tormy]

Making the skin tissue itself poisonous would be pointless.  However, skin poisons would be possible if creatures could secrete a spatter/contaminant/covering onto their own skin, and if those coverings could be transferred during wrestling, etc.

Well yeah, perhaps that makes more sense compared to what I've posted. Even in real life, some poisons can kill a human if the poison had contact with the skin. So, this would be a neat feature imo. 

[G-Flex]

Sidenote: Having creatures with poisonous meat/skin would get very dangerous if we have no way of actually controlling what gets eaten/cooked/tanned into leather/etc.

I mean, say you butcher a Giant Poisonous Frog for the tasty meat. You certainly don't want the skin getting worked into leather. And if you harvest some Poison Somethingweed to make rope with, you don't want it getting eaten.

Sidenote to sidenote: Poisons that only exist prior to tanning/cooking/whatever other processing would be interesting.

[BishopX]

Sidenote: Having creatures with poisonous meat/skin would get very dangerous if we have no way of actually controlling what gets eaten/cooked/tanned into leather/etc.

I mean, say you butcher a Giant Poisonous Frog for the tasty meat. You certainly don't want the skin getting worked into leather. And if you harvest some Poison Somethingweed to make rope with, you don't want it getting eaten.

Sidenote to sidenote: Poisons that only exist prior to tanning/cooking/whatever other processing would be interesting.

On the upside there would finally be a reason for dwarves to be wearing such ridiculous amounts of clothing!

[Warlord255]

I could see Fire Snakes having a "venom" which induces fever and mouth injuries when eaten, if possible.

Also, will vermin be disease-spreaders? Rats infecting food supplies, etc?

[Footkerchief]

I could see Fire Snakes having a "venom" which induces fever and mouth injuries when eaten, if possible.

Apparently their "venom" will do straight up thermal damage: "The venom in the current version are already added to the creature and remain there for whatever the duration is, but it doesn't check temps on them.  I'm hoping to do that this time around so that fire snakes can be proper and the "liquid fire" extract can be more wholesomely amusing when dwarves are bitten." (from NFotF thread)

Also, will vermin be disease-spreaders? Rats infecting food supplies, etc?

That's one of the longstanding bloats: # Bloat18, VERMIN AND DISEASE, (Future): Link vermin to plagues.

No guarantee of any diseases in this release though, and communicable diseases are probably a ways off: "Consider infections and disease"

[Mephansteras]

Had a question that was posted a while back but I don't think ever got an answer. Will the new body raws let us get shells from non-vermin creatures now? And possibly from vermin that aren't fish that have been prepared?