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Author Topic: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items  (Read 3663743 times)

SirHoneyBadger

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #90 on: January 22, 2009, 12:51:19 am »

Thanks, Footkerchief!
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i2amroy

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #91 on: January 22, 2009, 12:52:55 am »

Man I want this new version to come out ASAP, but I also dread it coming out, because that will mean I will have to redesign my 500+ custom creatures, my 25ish custom races, my 1000 some custom weapons, who knows how many custom minerals and metals, all of those custom armor and instruments and other items, as well as all of the custom plants, into the new version. Right now I feel like I have a multiple personality disorder just looking at the update page. ;D
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SirHoneyBadger

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #92 on: January 22, 2009, 02:35:54 am »

Yeah, I'm with you. I'm working on a huge mod, but there's not a lot of point in doing much more than the basics, and coming up with new ideas, before the next update is out.

The nice part is, since I haven't gotten everything "set in stone", I can kind of build the mod around the update, without having to redo huge amounts of material.
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Toady One

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #93 on: January 22, 2009, 03:40:26 am »

First off, the very slight amount of antagonism developing in the thread needs to cool off.  I know a lot more happens on other threads here, and I don't often come in to clamp things down until I receive reports, but as this is a stickied dev thread, I'd like to keep it reasonably clean.  Please be polite.

Quote from: SirHoneyBadger
Supposedly-from the DWiki-I understand that werewolves recover damage from wounds really, really quickly, but I haven't seen any evidence of this from the Tags, and I also haven't noticed it happening in the game.

Yeah, there's nothing like that in the currently released version.

Quote from: SirHoneyBadger
Ofcourse lower orders of animals, like a worm, could even grow into two worms, if cut in half.

That could become a real challenge, if you're facing off a megabeast-sized worm, and it runs into a sawblade trap, and now there's two of them.

It'd be interesting to see how the souls play out when that happens, if any future mega worms get souls.

Quote from: Kalimar
I am sure that the healthcare will provide amputation?

Whatever they need to do -- if there are infections, and there could very well be (it's a "consider" right now), it'll be required.  I wonder if the ancient peoples stumbled upon fasciotomies as a remedy for compartment syndrome from swollen parts.  It seems like the sort of "bleed 'em!" thing they'd happen upon.  I'm going to need some more historical surgery info before I get started.  I dunno where the history of surgery book I borrowed from my mom is, but I'm sure there's a lot floating around online, and we have some related forum topics here I should probably pick through.

Quote from: Mu.
If: currently, a hammer does damage because it's a steel hammer, but in the next release a hammer does damage because it's a weapon with a weight and density rating of x and y, then the simulation has changed, but the gameplay has not.  My dwarf is still swinging the hammer, and dealing damage.  That I might now select to manufacture hammers of different materials (or whatever) does not change the gameplay in any meaningful way.

Many (not all, many) of the changes seem to be the same sort of thing.  They alter the mechanics, but wont improve the gameplay in any way that appears significant to me.

I was wondering what Toady's opinion was.

When I add more complications to the underlying simulation, the development at that time will focus on getting the existing code up to speed so that the game still functions, and there are often complaints during these times, as, indeed, it's more or less refactoring sometimes without significant visible changes (as in your hammer example).  However, these changes build potential, with an eye on keeping important future additions in the same framework, with all of the pieces working together.  The reason we have what we have now or even what we had prior to the Z-axis is because of similar efforts in the past.

Some of the changes are focused more toward immersion than adding additional play options, but I think that's fine as a matter of taste, and most of the information geared toward immersion in the short term will have an impact on options-oriented play later.  Many of the novel situations that need to be tackled by an options-oriented player are the result of the interplay between basic elements that were added previously.

The 2D/3D issue is a different matter, where something I needed to do for many of my long-term goals to work out, the addition of the Z-axis, caused some harm to a variety of challenge-oriented play styles (military, food production, etc.).  As some people mentioned, I'm hoping that the underground changes will bring some of that back, though it'll still have a Z-axis, which is enough to put some people off entirely.  I'm planning on farming revisions for later (I think that's up on dev).  In any case, the idea for the release *after* this next release is going to be to tackle one of the main army issues (improved sieges or sending out armies) as well as to take honest stabs at the top 10 or so entries from eternal suggestions (farming is currently among them), and there will probably be another item or two from dev_next that isn't from the Army Arc, though what we want to do from among those constantly shifts.
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Patarak

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #94 on: January 22, 2009, 03:50:35 am »

So what is a "soul" from a mechanical perspective?

Can they be thrown for massive damage?
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Aqizzar

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #95 on: January 22, 2009, 04:00:08 am »

Toady - You've mentioned a few times that you haven't specifically done anything with item degradation (I don't see it in the list either), but that with the new physics-based item properties it' closer to possible.  Just how far off is item degradation/damage?

Also, I you have my pity for starting a second dev-thread you have to write ginormous walls of answers for.
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Stromko

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #96 on: January 22, 2009, 04:00:37 am »

So what is a "soul" from a mechanical perspective?

Can they be thrown for massive damage?

It's only solid to ghosts, you'd have to have some sort of ghost-touch effect, and it would only hit ghosts or things that can collide with ghosts.

Additional benefits of having it as an actual dropped on-death object is that it can be used as a Reaction material for sacrifices. Or just signal where a death occured or where a soul is otherwise tied to, for the benefit of various undead (ghosts, spectres, reanimated dead and possessions).

This started out as a joke response but I'm seeing the merit of having these as actual game mechanics, personally.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2009, 04:02:46 am by Stromko »
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SirHoneyBadger

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #97 on: January 22, 2009, 04:10:31 am »


Quote from: Kalimar
I am sure that the healthcare will provide amputation?
Whatever they need to do -- if there are infections, and there could very well be (it's a "consider" right now), it'll be required.  I wonder if the ancient peoples stumbled upon fasciotomies as a remedy for compartment syndrome from swollen parts.  It seems like the sort of "bleed 'em!" thing they'd happen upon.  I'm going to need some more historical surgery info before I get started.  I dunno where the history of surgery book I borrowed from my mom is, but I'm sure there's a lot floating around online, and we have some related forum topics here I should probably pick through.

Aside from whatever materials you have at hand, Toady, and whatever other posts you can glean from, I'll be more than happy to offer my services digging up as much historical information as I can. If nothing else, it sounds interesting, and as both of my parents worked for years in the medical industry, I've kept up on the subject well enough to know where to start.

I work online for a living (not that I make much), so I don't have much else to do, honestly, and I'm a pretty fast and thorough researcher. I'd start tonight, but I promised myself an extra hour of sleep, over what I usually get, so I'm off to do that.

I'll start with trepanation since I know it's got a really long history, pre-1400 surgical tools in general, Greek and Egyptian surgical methods in particular, and I'll start a thread on it all.
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Footkerchief

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #98 on: January 22, 2009, 04:19:08 am »

Toady - You've mentioned a few times that you haven't specifically done anything with item degradation (I don't see it in the list either), but that with the new physics-based item properties it' closer to possible.  Just how far off is item degradation/damage?

I think that's what "Consider item/attacking part damage" refers to (hiding at the bottom of Wounds/Combat).  Could be something else entirely though.

Also, I you have my pity for starting a second dev-thread you have to write ginormous walls of answers for.

Seriously.  I personally am trying to adopt a wait-and-see attitude.
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Mechanoid

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #99 on: January 22, 2009, 05:46:57 am »

I just realised, with the game set up so that blunt weapons now crush things and such, a lead mace could potentially out-damage an adamantine mace due to the lead maces' superior density. Of course, the adamantine mace is relatively indestructible and won't melt when you fight a high-temperature enemy.

Hopefully those artificial "% damage" will be gone in this next version. Then copper weapons might be better in one way that an iron one might not be (corrosion resistance)
« Last Edit: January 22, 2009, 05:48:58 am by Mechanoid »
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Mu.

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #100 on: January 22, 2009, 05:50:32 am »

Quote from: Toady One
The 2D/3D issue is a different matter, where something I needed to do for many of my long-term goals to work out, the addition of the Z-axis, caused some harm to a variety of challenge-oriented play styles (military, food production, etc.).  As some people mentioned, I'm hoping that the underground changes will bring some of that back, though it'll still have a Z-axis, which is enough to put some people off entirely.  I'm planning on farming revisions for later (I think that's up on dev).  In any case, the idea for the release *after* this next release is going to be to tackle one of the main army issues (improved sieges or sending out armies) as well as to take honest stabs at the top 10 or so entries from eternal suggestions (farming is currently among them), and there will probably be another item or two from dev_next that isn't from the Army Arc, though what we want to do from among those constantly shifts.
Improvements to sieging and farming, with more underground diversity sounds great.  I guess I'll just have to wait until the next dev cycle.  Hope you don't get burnt out before then!
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Kishmond

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #101 on: January 22, 2009, 08:14:11 am »

Quote
Make dwarves clean themselves up and groom/trim their cosmetic tissue layers before they sleep

Am I the only one that realized this:
"Bomrek McLadydwarf cancels Construct Building: Freshening Up."

 :-*

Tormy

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #102 on: January 22, 2009, 08:43:27 am »

Quote
Make dwarves clean themselves up and groom/trim their cosmetic tissue layers before they sleep

Am I the only one that realized this:
"Bomrek McLadydwarf cancels Construct Building: Freshening Up."

 :-*

Hehe, lot of DF players will be happy about this. [Those who like to micromanage their dwarves at least].  Dwarves won't be covered in vomit and blood anymore.  :D
« Last Edit: January 22, 2009, 08:52:27 am by Tormy »
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G-Flex

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #103 on: January 22, 2009, 11:39:08 am »

Ideally, heavier shouldn't always equal better for things like blunt weapons.


Obviously they rely on brute force due to a heavy end, but you also need to be able to swing the damn thing, and you can't swing a 100-pound mace very fast, now can you? :P
Point being that force of impact depends on how precisely and how quickly the item can be swung, which weigh affects ADVERSELY, so I assume the "ideal weight" for a blunt weapon would be some middle ground, dependent upon the ability of the wielder; a supernaturally-strong megabeast might be fine with a lead mace (although it'll deform easily) and could do massive damage with it, but a regular dwarf would only be able to make slow, awful, imprecise, low-impact hits with it, if he can swing it at all.


Also, as far as dwarven health care goes:

Maggots.
Maggots are a great historical health treatment tool. I'm sure this is probably one of the first things you find out when researching this kind of stuff, so I'm not sure I need to mention it, but maggots will basically eat the dead, necrotized flesh in a wound while leaving the still-living flesh alone. This made them extremely useful to clean wounds and promote their healing/sanitation, and in fact are still used (rarely) for that today, even when modern methods are available. You just let some maggots onto the wound and they clean the thing out for you, after which you remove them.

Another advantage to this is that it's dwarfy as hell. I mean, your average human might be grossed out by it (even if they do it, which they would), but dwarves are okay using "purring maggots" for "milk" (whatever kind of weird insect/worm milk that is), so they sure as hell wouldn't have a problem using them for health care. Dwarves are somewhat linked to maggots anyway in some old Norse folklore; they were sometimes seen as essentially being the maggots squirming and digging through Ymir's flesh, from which the world is made.
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Quarthinos

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #104 on: January 22, 2009, 11:46:51 am »

I haven't read through the whole thread yet, but I saw this:

Quote
Familiarity with individual weapons, attachment to them, weapon mentions in legends

and immediately thought about the Rifleman's Creed:

This is my <weapon>.  There are many like it, but this one is mine.  It is my life.  I must master it as I must master my life....

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