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[catfry]

Combat reports are too spammy for me, but I'm glad everyone else might end up getting them

I wasn't planning to blast out every single line of adv mode text at the bottom of the screen, at least.  I think ideally it would be able to decide where the battles are or link the announcements to a given conflict between two or more creatures and then let you expand out saved text for that... maybe with some sort of zoomable report marker that could be used for other things as well.  I haven't settled on a system.  You should be able to know when your critters are fighting and then see what has been/is going on in detail if you like.  That's the basic goal.

I think historical combat logs will be the way to go, I cannot really imagine how else to manage the flood of info in real time as a player. This is the kind of thing that ideally should be represented graphically since more info can be picked up per second that way, but that is pretty impossible with the games' current capabilities in this regard, and we'll have to make do with text.

[SirHoneyBadger]

Thanks so much for working so hard for us, Toady.
God knows most days I don't work that hard for myself.

One thing I was wondering, with the huge amounts of new physiology/body stuff, is if we'll see any real Regeneration any time soon? I haven't seen it explicitely referred to yet, but maybe I'm missing it.

There's so much new stuff to take in, afterall.

Supposedly-from the DWiki-I understand that werewolves recover damage from wounds really, really quickly, but I haven't seen any evidence of this from the Tags, and I also haven't noticed it happening in the game. Along with this, would it be possible for creatures to regenerate bodyparts? I think it would be great if hydras grew extra heads if the old ones got severed. It would help separate them from true dragons.

Ofcourse lower orders of animals, like a worm, could even grow into two worms, if cut in half.

That could become a real challenge, if you're facing off a megabeast-sized worm, and it runs into a sawblade trap, and now there's two of them.

[sweitx]

I read it as having necrotic venoms, which are really hideous.

Yeah, that's what we meant...  some months back, Threetoe and I happened upon the Discovery channel "series" (it has like 2 episodes) "I Was Bitten".  It was trashy, of course, but it was also thoroughly disgustingly graphic and therefore inspiring for the game.

For others... "EW..."
For Toady... "That should be in DF!"

[Kalimar]

Poisonous gases? Nice. Can't wait to have a fortress full of lung damaged Dwarves from excessively burning coal.
Also, necrotic tissues sound interesting as well. I am sure that the healthcare will provide amputation?

[Thndr]

Combat reports are too spammy for me, but I'm glad everyone else might end up getting them

I wasn't planning to blast out every single line of adv mode text at the bottom of the screen, at least.  I think ideally it would be able to decide where the battles are or link the announcements to a given conflict between two or more creatures and then let you expand out saved text for that... maybe with some sort of zoomable report marker that could be used for other things as well.  I haven't settled on a system.  You should be able to know when your critters are fighting and then see what has been/is going on in detail if you like.  That's the basic goal.

I think historical combat logs will be the way to go, I cannot really imagine how else to manage the flood of info in real time as a player. This is the kind of thing that ideally should be represented graphically since more info can be picked up per second that way, but that is pretty impossible with the games' current capabilities in this regard, and we'll have to make do with text.

Well Toady could always make a new side menu that does the scrolling text live, but then there'd be the confusion of who's battling who and such sometimes.

For organizing logs, a good way would be to organize it like

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Year - Season - Month
-Ambush/Seige Started
--Battle of BLAH BLAH BLAH (random name? Ability to give it custom name?)
---List of participants(Outcome of participants: alive, dead, etc.)
--Battle of ...
---List of participants(Outcome of participants: alive, dead, etc.)
--Battle of ...
---List of participants(Outcome of participants: alive, dead, etc.)
-Ambush/Seige End
-Peace Started
--Encounter of Kobold Snatcher
---List of participants(Outcome of participants: alive, dead, etc.)

The bold options (Battle of... , Encounter of...) would be selectable in which a battle report could be shown. Each battle group would be grouped by season and all the season by years. The battles themselves could state the day the battle/encounter started and ended as well.

Although the logs themselves could still get cluttered with a whole fortress full of battling, so it could limit it to mini encounters (which might be a bit tricky for the game to evaluate what consists of a seperate encounter), in which like Squad A of the goblin seige battling people is a single battle in itself or not.

[Warlord255]

Combat reports are too spammy for me, but I'm glad everyone else might end up getting them

I wasn't planning to blast out every single line of adv mode text at the bottom of the screen, at least.  I think ideally it would be able to decide where the battles are or link the announcements to a given conflict between two or more creatures and then let you expand out saved text for that... maybe with some sort of zoomable report marker that could be used for other things as well.  I haven't settled on a system.  You should be able to know when your critters are fighting and then see what has been/is going on in detail if you like.  That's the basic goal.

I think historical combat logs will be the way to go, I cannot really imagine how else to manage the flood of info in real time as a player. This is the kind of thing that ideally should be represented graphically since more info can be picked up per second that way, but that is pretty impossible with the games' current capabilities in this regard, and we'll have to make do with text.

Well Toady could always make a new side menu that does the scrolling text live, but then there'd be the confusion of who's battling who and such sometimes.

For organizing logs, a good way would be to organize it like

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Year - Season - Month
-Ambush/Seige Started
--Battle of BLAH BLAH BLAH (random name? Ability to give it custom name?)
---List of participants(Outcome of participants: alive, dead, etc.)
--Battle of ...
---List of participants(Outcome of participants: alive, dead, etc.)
--Battle of ...
---List of participants(Outcome of participants: alive, dead, etc.)
-Ambush/Seige End
-Peace Started
--Encounter of Kobold Snatcher
---List of participants(Outcome of participants: alive, dead, etc.)

The bold options (Battle of... , Encounter of...) would be selectable in which a battle report could be shown. Each battle group would be grouped by season and all the season by years. The battles themselves could state the day the battle/encounter started and ended as well.

Although the logs themselves could still get cluttered with a whole fortress full of battling, so it could limit it to mini encounters (which might be a bit tricky for the game to evaluate what consists of a seperate encounter), in which like Squad A of the goblin seige battling people is a single battle in itself or not.

This sounds like a good way to do it. "Battle Logs" could be accessed as the main menu, then pick a year, then a month, then (optional) a day.

[catfry]

Alternatively the combat logs could be displayed in the individual dwarf's profile screen via a link beside the 'view kills' link or something like that. So it would be more associated with the specific dwarf doing the fighting, interface-wise.

[Flaede]

Amazing, so much that I didn't even know I wanted until it showed up on this list.
And the ropes (ropes! oh man is that happy news, especially with the New Underground)

but still glass vials do not break. I was hoping that would come in with all the new horrible horrible poison extracts, but I know itès a big change from what goes on with falling objects right now (Aside from living ones)

[Warlord255]

Alternatively the combat logs could be displayed in the individual dwarf's profile screen via a link beside the 'view kills' link or something like that. So it would be more associated with the specific dwarf doing the fighting, interface-wise.

So a mini-Legends thing?

Each kill entry would have a sub-menu with the combat log... though with non-notable kills (like that one GCS) you might have to do a sub-menu for multiples.

[Mu.]

It sounds like a lot of boring simulation stuff.  Will this have much of a tangible impact on gameplay?  I've always appreciated the level of detail in the game, but I also have a lot more fun playing the 2D version then the newer versions, so I've been hoping to see changes specific to gameplay rather than simulation depth.

[Mechanoid]

It sounds like a lot of boring simulation stuff.

Will this have much of a tangible impact on gameplay?

The gameplay in Dwarf Fortress is simulated.



Of course the "boring simulation stuff" will have an impact!

[Mu.]

Do you honestly not understand the difference between gameplay and mechanical elements?

If: currently, a hammer does damage because it's a steel hammer, but in the next release a hammer does damage because it's a weapon with a weight and density rating of x and y, then the simulation has changed, but the gameplay has not.  My dwarf is still swinging the hammer, and dealing damage.  That I might now select to manufacture hammers of different materials (or whatever) does not change the gameplay in any meaningful way.

Many (not all, many) of the changes seem to be the same sort of thing.  They alter the mechanics, but wont improve the gameplay in any way that appears significant to me.

I was wondering what Toady's opinion was.

[Sunday]

Hey, man.  First of all, lets make sure this doesn't turn into a flame fest.  Not accusing anyone, but it would be nice if we could all discuss it calmly and rationally.

Second of all - could you explain what you mean by gameplay changes?  Poisons and new underground features seem like they could change gameplay significantly (as well as wounds, but perhaps we differ there).  So will squad changes and medical changes.

One of the planned features is underground 'invasions' (or rather the creatures replenishing and gunning for dwarves) from underground features, just like in the 2D version, so you should be happy about that.

Also, if you have any new suggestions, there's always the suggestion forum.  Not trying to be snarky at all.  But it would be nice if this thread didn't devolve into flaming.

[Footkerchief]

One thing I was wondering, with the huge amounts of new physiology/body stuff, is if we'll see any real Regeneration any time soon? I haven't seen it explicitely referred to yet, but maybe I'm missing it.

This came up in the other thread:

IIRC Toady has mentioned something about regrowing body parts a while ago, so yeah, we gonna have this feature in the future hopefully.

You can have them grow in over time from, say, length=0, but there's nothing like regeneration at this point.

As for this:

It sounds like a lot of boring simulation stuff.  Will this have much of a tangible impact on gameplay?  I've always appreciated the level of detail in the game, but I also have a lot more fun playing the 2D version then the newer versions, so I've been hoping to see changes specific to gameplay rather than simulation depth.

One of the explicit goals of this version is to bring back some of the fun stuff from the 2D version.  From the dev log:

All right, sorting out the underground revisions... we'd like to get a framework in place that can recapture some of the better properties of the 2D version without conceding any ground.

[Patarak]

Hey, man.  First of all, lets make sure this doesn't turn into a flame fest.  Not accusing anyone, but it would be nice if we could all discuss it calmly and rationally.

Do you honestly not understand the difference between gameplay and mechanical elements?

If: currently, a hammer does damage because it's a steel hammer, but in the next release a hammer does damage because it's a weapon with a weight and density rating of x and y, then the simulation has changed, but the gameplay has not.  My dwarf is still swinging the hammer, and dealing damage.  That I might now select to manufacture hammers of different materials (or whatever) does not change the gameplay in any meaningful way.

Many (not all, many) of the changes seem to be the same sort of thing.  They alter the mechanics, but wont improve the gameplay in any way that appears significant to me.

I was wondering what Toady's opinion was.

Yes, this is clearly the works of a man just itching for a flame-fest. Dumb-dumb.

I think Toady is trying to set up precedent for the bulk of the Army arc, and part of that is thoroughly refining combat and squad stuff. I'm not sure how I feel about this design philosophy. Building frame-work from the ground up has obvious disadvantages, and it doesn't necessarily benefit the development of later arcs.