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[Neruz]

My oh my, what to do with all this monies.

I believe i shall put them in a pool and bathe.

[Samoorai]

DF is moving ahead, but unfortunately it has had its arms and legs lopped off.

Actually, I think DF is more like the end boss in mass effect 2. Think about it.

A giant, illogical and completely inexplicable skull that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever in every context known to man and has single-handedly been personally responsible for millions of brain aneurysms in sci-fi fans worldwide?

Yes. Think about it.

[greenwatering]

so, several pages back when we decided that animals where NOT milkable... we where wrong?!

[Samoorai]

From my understanding, milking still requires the creature being milked to be carried. I don't care what you say, you can't carry a cow. I think all that's really been done is that dwarves won't randomly decide to eat the live maggots until there's no other food.

[Innominate]

From my understanding, milking still requires the creature being milked to be carried. I don't care what you say, you can't carry a cow. I think all that's really been done is that dwarves won't randomly decide to eat the live maggots until there's no other food.

Except apparently sentients without [CAN_LEARN] can be milked if they have [MILKABLE].

[G-Flex]

We had some people (Footkerchief included) saying pretty authoritatively that we can milk large creatures now, although I still have no idea where that information came from.

Toady didn't deny that, and even answered a question about milking intelligent creatures without making the obvious "you can't even milk large creatures in general" response, so I'm willing to believe it.

Except apparently sentients without [CAN_LEARN] can be milked if they have [MILKABLE].

Ah dammit, you got to it first.

However, I believe any sentient animal has [CAN_LEARN] (that's what makes them intelligent, and [INTELLIGENT] itself implies it), so that would prevent you there.

[Scarpa]

From my understanding, milking still requires the creature being milked to be carried. I don't care what you say, you can't carry a cow. I think all that's really been done is that dwarves won't randomly decide to eat the live maggots until there's no other food.

Here's what Toady said:

Can we actually extract materials from living animals (which arent vermin) with this release?

Just materials from adult MILKABLE-caste fortress units that don't have CAN_LEARN.  It doesn't have to be milk -- however, it'll go to a bucket, and it'll be sort of worthless there if you don't want to classify it as a barrel storable mat like milk or if it isn't edible or something.

Now, the way I read that is your milker will take a bucket to any milkable livestock and perform the job, similar to the way wells and buckets are used. I suppose the buckets will fill with a stack of milk like they do with water and be stored in a food stockpile for cheesemaking, cooking or drinking.

[Protactinium]

From my understanding, milking still requires the creature being milked to be carried. I don't care what you say, you can't carry a cow.

Um, dragging is still in the game. Your dwarves drag creatures to the Butcher's Shop and the Kennel. And for being pitted off of towers.

[Kadzar]

We can milk cows now! Yay!

I'm wondering if we can have separate extracts according to caste-type.

[Footkerchief]

When civilizations get big enough, will you eventually lose a bit of focus on the detail so you can make HUEG civilizations? I would want to have a huge human empire rather than 1 village...

just a thought.

It's in the dev notes as usual:

# COUNTY ARC: You should be able to develop a larger settlement outside the confines of the immediate play area. Related to Core28, Core29  and PowerGoal53.

# Core28, CONTROL OF TERRITORY AND EXTERNAL LOCATIONS, (Future): As your fortress expands into a barony, county and duchy, these words should attain some meaning with regards to the surrounding lands. Additional outposts/villages/work camps might be founded under your control, but out of the playable view, providing local trade and a further population pool for warfare and other endeavors. The scope is undecided, but this might include typical mountainside outposts, dwarf/human/mixed villages nearby in other biomes, or deeper sites that you found in tunnels that you carve via the next core item. Related to Core29 and Bloat172.

# Core29, EXTERNAL CONSTRUCTIONS, (Future): World map roads, bridges, walls and tunnels shouldn't just be products of world generation. You should be able to dispatch dwarves and materials to accomplish these tasks (though the amount of material used in a typical world generation road would virtually prohibit doing this as it currently stands, so something has to change). Requires Core28.

# Core30, KINGDOM, (Future): If you manage to get the monarch of the dwarves to arrive, you should obtain at least indirect control over the entire corresponding dwarven civilization. This includes the movement of all dwarven armies on the map and the ability to make the most important diplomatic decisions. Requires Core28.

# Core33, SERVING YOUR MONARCH, (Future): Once you have an outside village (or even before), you could receive orders from the dwarven leader to serve up some of your population as troops. If the soldier is one of your familiar fortress units, you could control them in any future army fights later in that game, or you might control an entire squad if more of your soldiers were drafted.

hmm the black-knight would work if there are some nature spirit like beings that traverse darker roads. Thus they could control a zomby. If we get to this the zomby could hand out snarky comments about being dismembered.

Multiple souls would also beg the question how it is handled in the future. Will the souls have all the same memory for example? Or can one soul push another back into some kind of comatose state?

Spoiler: As you can see from previous answers to similar questions about souls, he doesn't know exactly how it'll work yet, and both situations will probably be possible. (click to show/hide)

I've noticed toady has handled the concepts of "undead" vs "has soul", but I can't seem to find a mention of exactly how said concepts were handled.

Would someone like to enlighten my curiosity?

I don't know how or if it's been handled yet for undead, but relevant questions are things like, does a zombie have memories and thoughts--or is it totally controlled by its master?  If it doesn't have thoughts, then can it perceive things, or it the master controlling it like an extension of his body?  Can a zombie have mental attributes without having memories?  Stuff like that.  I haven't seen anything about what got decide here.

I'm not going to make any involved decisions until I actually get to doing curses.  I just needed to answer the question in some way to make the game playable.  Right now, undead have no souls, but that's not canon.  It's just an ease-of-use decision that aligns with the current behavior.  Curses will likely have those questions answered in multiple ways.

So what is a "soul" from a mechanical perspective?

Souls are what give you your personality.  All the mental, emotional, social, preferential types of stuff that dwarves have now--that might include skills--is part of your soul.  The fact that you like rose gold, that you're quick to anger, that you dislike Bomrek, stuff like that is soul stuff.

In future arcs, when a spirit can possess your body, your soul gets kicked out or displaced by someone with different preferences, different mannerisms, different motives, and possibly different skills.  Your body's strength stays the same, but the new soul controls your empathy.

Issues with undead having souls, to me, is stuff like:  Do they still have the same soul as their original owner of the body, except the body is decayed?  Do they all have a generic soul, defined by their animation by dark magic?

That's my understanding anyway, which may not be correct.

Sowelu's take is correct.  It includes skills as well.  As for undead, it should probably be universe-dependent, though I'll hack whatever in this time around.  I think there's a dev_next item on extending undead notions, and this will come up again there.

in many movies, stories, cartoons, etc starring skelletal antagonists, when a limb is severed it continues to (attempt to) attack the protagonist, sometimes recombining into semi-complete or even overcomplete bodies.
how would this work soulwise?
Is a soul an undevidable boolean (has/hasnot) or will it be in the form of a integer 'soulforce' as alternative to the health/energy of living creatures?
Which would allow limbs to inherit a soul-portion proportional to it's relative size, while the first would likely require a centralized location (skull/enchanted soulstone/mindrune/magicbottle/etc).

The soul is an entire structure containing all sorts of information, and a creature can contain many souls (no cases of that in-game currently, but it is supported code-wise).  If undead were actually controlled by a soul rather than some kind of animation, then the extra moving limb could either represent a soul splitting, which could work, or the original undead could be populated by many souls, and one could jump off into the arm, or the soul could somehow be in both without splitting and maintain control over multiple 'creatures'.  In the first and third cases, you could keep on splitting indefinitely (with whatever restrictions), but in the second, you'd run out after you ran out of souls.  It's really just up to whatever gets coded.  It should be pretty versatile as I add more and more possibilities.

I'm wondering if we can have separate extracts according to caste-type.

Yup.  All the extract/milking stuff is caste-level.

[G-Flex]

It would be kind of weird if milk-type extracts weren't caste-level, since then you'd be able to milk males.

[Rockphed]

It would be kind of weird if milk-type extracts weren't caste-level, since then you'd be able to milk males.

We already had this conversation a couple pages back.  Cloth-for-tying-around-ankles* will doubtless provide a link to it if we ask.

*by which I mean Footkercheif.

[yarr]

I don't know but from the last Toady-post it sounds like we're extremely close to release? Anyone else got that vibe? 

[PsyberianHusky]

It would be kind of weird if milk-type extracts weren't caste-level, since then you'd be able to milk males.

We already had this conversation a couple pages back.  Cloth-for-tying-around-ankles* will doubtless provide a link to it if we ask.

*by which I mean Footkercheif.

I thought he was the Chief of footkets

[Doomshifter]

"Footkerchief is a deity of The Bay-Forum of Twelve. Footkerchief most often takes the form of a User and is associated with the search function, quotations and knowledge."