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[jamoecw]

fixed some of the legends text export information (still unclear whether that's going to be replaced/augmented by xml)...

JSON looks nicer than XML, and there are libraries for reading and writing it in almost every language.

Strike 1: JSON has no comment syntax

Strike 2: sexp syndrome.  tell me in three seconds or less whether these "tags" are balanced.  Now tell me before I reach the last closing bracket.

{'a' : {'b' : 1, {'c' : {'d' : 1 }, {'e', 2}, 'f' : 3}}, {'g' : 5}}}
 

the last bracket is one too many, though i don't think with what you wrote it would have mattered.  usually having too many starting brackets is a problem, not so much with ending brackets.  any one who does parenthesis in parenthesis math, or spaghetti code can catch that pretty quickly, but as i said in your example it doesn't really matter.

personally i think is xml is overrated, it is simply the flavor of the month, i'd stick with text it has been around longer.  not to mention that anyone that can make good use of xml ought to be able to make something that can convert text to xml, or at least find a program to do it, heck one can convert it to json as well.

What are you guys talking about?

They're talking about what format they'd like to see exports of information from Dwarf Fortress in. JSON is the "new hotness", XML is the "old workingness".

JSON is good for certain things, but XML works in all cases. 

if someone comes along and supports json then it will be the new hotness, until then it is just for the pie in the sky dreamers, in reality there is no serious functional difference between the two.

[Cardinal]

As explained above, this is incorrect -- black panthers are not a separate caste of jaguars, just a color variation, and that coloration has genetic factors just like all the other color/appearance modifiers.

Of course, it's all for nought with spore breeding, unless you plan to wage a war of extermination against all on-map outside-gene carriers.

[Cardinal]

if someone comes along and supports json then it will be the new hotness, until then it is just for the pie in the sky dreamers, in reality there is no serious functional difference between the two.

There's lots of support for it.  MIT's Simile uses JSON for its data, and all the nerds who love Drupal seem to think JSON is sweet like a Jaguar XKE (Try breeding one of those...).

[smjjames]

As explained above, this is incorrect -- black panthers are not a separate caste of jaguars, just a color variation, and that coloration has genetic factors just like all the other color/appearance modifiers.

Of course, it's all for nought with spore breeding, unless you plan to wage a war of extermination against all on-map outside-gene carriers.

Even then, you have absolutely no control over who impregnates who with the spore breeding. In fact, spores will reach animals that are isolated from others. Even the animals brought by merchants seem to be able to send spores through their cages even though they shouldn't. I swear my tame GCS gave birth in this way.

[Dr. Hieronymous Alloy]

As explained above, this is incorrect -- black panthers are not a separate caste of jaguars, just a color variation, and that coloration has genetic factors just like all the other color/appearance modifiers.

Of course, it's all for nought with spore breeding, unless you plan to wage a war of extermination against all on-map outside-gene carriers.

Shouldn't putting them in cages be enough? My plan was to cage all my below-average dogs.

[jfsh]

The one thing I really want, aside from all the goodies we're getting already, is to be able to remove certain dwarves from the "idle" display.  It drives me crazy to have dwarves showing as idle, even though there are some that I don't mind chattering away - probably because I tend to trap a lot of dwarves accidentally, and it makes it hard to notice.

Anyone know if we're going to get that someday?

[jamoecw]

if someone comes along and supports json then it will be the new hotness, until then it is just for the pie in the sky dreamers, in reality there is no serious functional difference between the two.

There's lots of support for it.  MIT's Simile uses JSON for its data, and all the nerds who love Drupal seem to think JSON is sweet like a Jaguar XKE (Try breeding one of those...).

so your example of support is someone using it?  the differences between the two are moot for the purposes of DF.  in a nutshell xml is a robust version of html, and json is a stripped down version of java.  since json is leaner than xml it can run faster, however since it uses java as its primary tool it won't run faster in the long run.  if that changes then it will run faster in the long run, but that is a big if.  now since we are using it for exporting information, which is done on a computer rather than over the net we don't have to worry about bandwith issues, or how well a tool can process the stuff inside of an open browser, nor how it affects other pages/tabs.  once that stuff is removed the only functional difference is that json reads closer to that of text, which is what it is now, thus changing it to something that reads worse (xml or json) is a step backwards.  you have the same info in the document, thus converting is trivial, and since converting a document rarely takes a noticeable amount of time when being run right before some sort of application it becomes pointless what format is used in regards of app compatibility other than whether or not the information is there.  in the end text is slightly better than json, which is slightly better than xml, at least for our purposes (and thus text is the clear winner since it is already in that format).

[Sizik]

if someone comes along and supports json then it will be the new hotness, until then it is just for the pie in the sky dreamers, in reality there is no serious functional difference between the two.

There's lots of support for it.  MIT's Simile uses JSON for its data, and all the nerds who love Drupal seem to think JSON is sweet like a Jaguar XKE (Try breeding one of those...).

so your example of support is someone using it?  the differences between the two are moot for the purposes of DF.  in a nutshell xml is a robust version of html, and json is a stripped down version of javascript.  since json is leaner than xml it can run faster, however since it uses javascript as its primary tool it won't run faster in the long run.  if that changes then it will run faster in the long run, but that is a big if.  now since we are using it for exporting information, which is done on a computer rather than over the net we don't have to worry about bandwith issues, or how well a tool can process the stuff inside of an open browser, nor how it affects other pages/tabs.  once that stuff is removed the only functional difference is that json reads closer to that of text, which is what it is now, thus changing it to something that reads worse (xml or json) is a step backwards.  you have the same info in the document, thus converting is trivial, and since converting a document rarely takes a noticeable amount of time when being run right before some sort of application it becomes pointless what format is used in regards of app compatibility other than whether or not the information is there.  in the end text is slightly better than json, which is slightly better than xml, at least for our purposes (and thus text is the clear winner since it is already in that format).

FTFY

[Orkel]

There was kind of a violent explosion of boiling human blood when I was testing a human vs a magma man in the arena... it was a little weird, but I guess that's okay.

Now that's what I call fun.

[jamoecw]

FTFY

the first one is right the second is wrong, since the script is called javascript, and the tool is called java.
[edit: turns out both are right, i know a lot of people that have been saying it wrong]
good catch though.

here's a quick xml looking thing done in a spreadsheet, just to give an idea to all those people clamoring for xml.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

<Dwarves>   The Key of Crowding                                    
<WorshipList>                                        
<deity>     Ziril   <domain>    mountains    volcanos    fire    the sun   </domain></deity>                  
<deity>     RŒsen   <domain>    jewels   </domain></deity>                           
<deity>     Limƒr   <domain>    wealth   </domain></deity>                           
<deity>     Kad“l Oiledsaves the Crystalline Earth   <domain>    fortresses    minerals   </domain></deity>                        
<deity>     Moldath   <domain>    metals    crafts    creation    birth    pregnancy    marriage    oaths    laws    justice   </domain></deity>   
<deity>     Vesh Tombskull   <domain>    suicide    death   </domain></deity>                        
<deity>     rlom   <domain>    longevity   </domain></deity>                           
<deity>     Lenod Springyouths the Future Seeds of Blossoming   <domain>    rebirth   </domain></deity>                           
<deity>     Das‰l the Meditations of Heather   <domain>    peace   </domain></deity>                           
<deity>     Tithleth   <domain>    dreams    the night   </domain></deity>                        
<deity>     Bomrek the Scrape of Scalding   <domain>    revenge   </domain></deity>                           
<deity>     Egul Fatherflag the Ace of Symmetry   <domain>    duty    order   </domain></deity>                        
</WorshipList>                                       
</Dwarves>                                       
                                    

keep in mind that this was done in a spreadsheet of all things and can work for all civ sections like this.  i didn't bother on the other half though.

if someone comes along and supports json then it will be the new hotness, until then it is just for the pie in the sky dreamers, in reality there is no serious functional difference between the two.

stuff about support existing

stuff about support not existing

Out of curiosity, does it count as support that there is a PHP module for working with it? I mean, I know the whole point of JSON was to output a data structure that you could just slap into a JavaScript execute function, so having a PHP module for output is practically mandated by it's existence, but the module does do more than output(even if 'more' just means import a JSON string to PHP variables or arrays).

all the tools i have seen for json are essentially javascript tools that have been made to work with json, the xml equivalent was when xml was new and one would use tools originally made for html.  when someone comes along and creates something which will only parse json and not javascript, and do so in a way to make json excel over xml in the long run in regards to being light weight and quick then it will have arrived as a contender for xml.  even .txt was there once.

[Reese]

if someone comes along and supports json then it will be the new hotness, until then it is just for the pie in the sky dreamers, in reality there is no serious functional difference between the two.

stuff about support existing

stuff about support not existing

Out of curiosity, does it count as support that there is a PHP module for working with it? I mean, I know the whole point of JSON was to output a data structure that you could just slap into a JavaScript execute function, so having a PHP module for output is practically mandated by it's existence, but the module does do more than output(even if 'more' just means import a JSON string to PHP variables or arrays).

[Sean Mirrsen]

There was kind of a violent explosion of boiling human blood when I was testing a human vs a magma man in the arena... it was a little weird, but I guess that's okay.

Now that's what I call fun.

Yeah, explosions of boiling human blood are kinda a given when the enemy is heated up to two thousand degrees.

[smjjames]

if someone comes along and supports json then it will be the new hotness, until then it is just for the pie in the sky dreamers, in reality there is no serious functional difference between the two.

stuff about support existing

stuff about support not existing

Out of curiosity, does it count as support that there is a PHP module for working with it? I mean, I know the whole point of JSON was to output a data structure that you could just slap into a JavaScript execute function, so having a PHP module for output is practically mandated by it's existence, but the module does do more than output(even if 'more' just means import a JSON string to PHP variables or arrays).

Could we get off of that topic? Its really going nowhere useful.

There was kind of a violent explosion of boiling human blood when I was testing a human vs a magma man in the arena... it was a little weird, but I guess that's okay.

O.o

Was that on contact with the magma man or was it an area of effect thing? If a Magma man is that hot, then a SOF must be absolutely horrifying in the new release.

Of course though, you'd kind of expect that if you stuck your hand into lava.

[MrWiggles]

There was kind of a violent explosion of boiling human blood when I was testing a human vs a magma man in the arena... it was a little weird, but I guess that's okay.

O.o

Was that on contact with the magma man or was it an area of effect thing? If a Magma man is that hot, then a SOF must be absolutely horrifying in the new release.

Of course though, you'd kind of expect that if you stuck your hand into lava.

Melted Admantine?

[Nadaka]

...
I'm not sure if I should take this bait.. but I think XML is definitely the better path to take for this particular scenario. JSON is lightweight, sure, but it's lacking some of the better toolsets that XML has like XPath and XSLT that really would help make sense of Legends data.

https://www.p6r.com/articles/2008/05/06/xslt-and-xpath-for-json/