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[DreamThorn]

Actually, you could just leave out the vital organs.

IIRC, Toady said that, if an organism lacks certain organs in its raws, it is assumed that they do not need them.

Examples: Fire Man, Magma Man, etc.

[Raging Mouse]

Hmmm that makes me wonder if you could invent new organs. "Oh Armok, that wrestler has ripped out my frunk and is choking me with it!"

[tfaal]

That's completely doable. The only issue would be that the "frunk" would either have to not have any real function (like kidneys in the next version) or be a conglomeration of the functions of other organs. If you gave the frunk the "under pressure", "nervous" and "flier" tags, you'd end up with a big, intestine like organ that would cause nerve problems when damaged and was necessary for flight. Even more cool things could be done with secretions or custom breath tags. Those can be applied to any body part, right?

[Torham]

Are there any plans to allow wood to be used for mechanisms for this release?
 Im thinking of forts where you start on Aquifer/multilayer aquifer. I believe wooden cogs have been historically used in windmills and such. Otherwise we will have to haul a pile of stones on embark journey. I mean we already have wooden pipes and wooden corkscrews, wooden mechanisms seem logical. Especially if you make them from oak.
Just a thought.

[CobaltKobold]

Hmmm that makes me wonder if you could invent new organs. "Oh Armok, that wrestler has ripped out my frunk and is choking me with it!"

My squeedily-spooch!

[tfaal]

Y'know, now that you bring up the subject of Irkens, you've gotten me thinking about partially mechanical creatures. It shouldn't be all that hard. You can do robotic arms with metal tissue layers, and electric arcs could be genericized into a gaseous, paralyzing tissue layer with the [NERVOUS] tag. Hydraulic fluid could be a liquid [MUSCULAR] tissue too. Rocket launchers and such might be difficult, though, so you probably wouldn't be able to pull off, say, a cyberdemon. You might be able to kludge something together with breath weapons, but I don't think it's likely.

[Lancensis]

Rocket launchers and such might be difficult, though, so you probably wouldn't be able to pull off, say, a cyberdemon. You might be able to kludge something together with breath weapons, but I don't think it's likely.

Well, you can give it fireballs, and you ought to be able to give it a freezing attack with an extract that evaporates at an incredibly low temperature. I dunno if freeze-rays are popular with killbots these days, but they should be.
You could have it spit solid lead, which I'm guessing will not do a whole lot of damage, or you could emulate Metal Gear Rex (or was that Ray?) and give it a kind of water jet cutter. If we're lucky, maybe it'll be possible for a creature to spit lava or cave in dust, although I remember hearing that Miasma was out (unless you make a custom body detail that will rot, called "Nerve Gas Canister" or something).

[JackAcid]

Bottomless Chasms and Pits are taken out for the next release. Will crevices and pits still be formed during worldgen, only with finite bottoms? And

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

 If so, would they be shortcuts into the new layered underworld?

[/color]

[tfaal]

Well, you can give it fireballs, and you ought to be able to give it a freezing attack with an extract that evaporates at an incredibly low temperature. I dunno if freeze-rays are popular with killbots these days, but they should be.
You could have it spit solid lead, which I'm guessing will not do a whole lot of damage, or you could emulate Metal Gear Rex (or was that Ray?) and give it a kind of water jet cutter. If we're lucky, maybe it'll be possible for a creature to spit lava or cave in dust, although I remember hearing that Miasma was out (unless you make a custom body detail that will rot, called "Nerve Gas Canister" or something).

Miasma wouldn't be good for nerve gas anyway; it would basically create a zone of mild unpleasantness. With inhaled poisons though, the sky is the limit. The water jet cutter and the lead ball chucker will work if we can dictate the velocity of the breath weapon. Here's hoping that's in the next release.

Bottomless Chasms and Pits are taken out for the next release. Will crevices and pits still be formed during worldgen, only with finite bottoms? And

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

 If so, would they be shortcuts into the new layered underworld?

Yeah, everything has a finite bottom now. The chasms and pits, if I remember correctly, have a layer of stone around them, so they could act as shortcuts for things that can dig (like your dwarves), but your adventurers are out of luck till the adventurer skills arc.

[Sean Mirrsen]

Hehe. Ideally, the "breath weapon" would indeed be a weapon instance, and it would have all the same parameters. Meaning, being able to tell the weapon to use built-in game classes, such as rocks or logs, or arbitrary item classes or specific items, of specific material, specific temperature and specific state.

[Footkerchief]

Will the weapons that are used for woodcutting still be determined by the [skill:axe] tag? (if it's correct that it's like that now)
Will dwarfs use training axes for woodcutting?

On a related note, has toady explained what exactly the [training] tag on a weapon does?

I'm sure training axes aren't meant to be used for woodcutting.  Hopefully the TRAINING tag (which tells the civilizations not to try to use it as a real weapon) would preclude that.

I wonder how the raws break down for medical practice. Like could the game know that what you're operating on is similar enough to a dwarf that the doctor would gain skill?

Lime'd for attention.

If the game does allow dwarves to operate on other species, the default would be that dwarves would gain skill whether or not the creature is similar to a dwarf.  The game doesn't really have a notion of bodies being similar-yet-different -- it's hard to tackle, kind of in the same vein as metamorphosis etc.  It'll get implemented at some point, but not yet.

[Sean Mirrsen]

How about just tracking matching organ patterns? See how well does the creature's BODY tag match that of yours, and derive a percentage. Fundamentally, a human isn't much different from a pig. That QUADRUPED and TAIL (and 2TUSKS for boars) would give it a degree of difference, but you could probably train a passable surgeon using just pigs.

[Footkerchief]

How about just tracking matching organ patterns? See how well does the creature's BODY tag match that of yours, and derive a percentage.

One must ask: a percentage of what?  I think what you're envisioning is having one set of medical skills for pigs, and another set for dwarves, with a synergistic relationship whose strength depends on that percentage.  But those species-specific skills won't exist yet.

[tfaal]

Finally handled a world gen crash that has been a problem for a long time. Earlier I stuck some blind cave fish men (yes, be prepared) in the arena to try them out, and they wouldn't do anything but wander around. It was frustrating, but after a bit I remembered that they didn't have the EXTRAVISION flag. Then it was fine!

So that's why my peahats weren't attacking! Thanks Toady!
In other news, cave fish men are going to be awesome.

[SirPenguin]

Blind cave fish men, eh? Also, in case people were wondering - like me! - this is what the EXTRAVISION tag does:

"Creature can see regardless of whether it has working eyes."

Seems kinda unfair those jerk blind cave fish men can see me while being blind.