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Author Topic: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items  (Read 3664662 times)

van

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #12555 on: February 14, 2010, 03:55:35 pm »

Anyone have a general idea as to when the kingdom, army and monarchy related stuffs will come into play? I would really like to see the things discussed in Core 27, 30, 33, 35, 46, 60, and the other things like offering to your king.

This seems to me, as one of the most interesting future aspects.

Something I would like to add to it is what perspective the player is allowed to take during the game.  Becuase currently you play as some kind of unrecognized god controlling things from the shadows.  I would like to see that when you get a king you control the fortress through the king's perspective, instead of just gaining a expensive and bossy noble.
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Footkerchief

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #12556 on: February 14, 2010, 04:00:56 pm »

Anyone have a general idea as to when the kingdom, army and monarchy related stuffs will come into play? I would really like to see the things discussed in Core 27, 30, 33, 35, 46, 60, and the other things like offering to your king.

This seems to me, as one of the most interesting future aspects.

Yeah, those are all coming up:

After this release, the next series of shorter releases will be made up of, in no set order:
1) Improved sieges against your fortress
2) Adventurer skills/entity stuff, per the dev next stuff
3) Eternal suggestions voting stuff

"Improved sieges" consists of the first part of the Basic Army Arc from dev_next:

Quote
# III.A.1: Having civ/site leaders organize armies and continue world gen wars (Core45,Core46)
# III.A.2: Making dwarf mode sieges come from actual armies on the map (part of Core26)
# III.A.3: Improving dwarf mode sieges (requires Caravan Arc Preliminaries I) (part of Core26)

So yeah, that'll involve a lot of army stuff, and will also give the leaders more interesting roles to play.  The rest of the Basic Army Arc is also relevant (wars of succession and so on), but it's a bit farther off.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2010, 04:04:28 pm by Footkerchief »
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Gorm

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #12557 on: February 14, 2010, 06:24:16 pm »

Will the weapons that are used for woodcutting still be determined by the [skill:axe] tag? (if it's correct that it's like that now)
Will dwarfs use training axes for woodcutting?

On a related note, has toady explained what exactly the [training] tag on a weapon does?
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As dwarves slowly lose their stats over time it's natural for them to get fatter as they age because there's no activities to train healing rate.
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madjoe5

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #12558 on: February 14, 2010, 06:32:22 pm »

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Awesome! That stuff that Toady named is all pretty sweet. I would love to have improved sieges/armies. It makes me feel like I made a difference.

Like if a 100 goblin strong force shows up, almost obliterates my entire fortress, save 15 or so dwarves, I would feel accomplished. Even in abysmal failure, I took 100 goblins with me, which is an actual army that could of actually attacked the mountainhome, but I took it down instead.

G-Flex

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #12559 on: February 14, 2010, 06:38:42 pm »

Anyone have a general idea as to when the kingdom, army and monarchy related stuffs will come into play? I would really like to see the things discussed in Core 27, 30, 33, 35, 46, 60, and the other things like offering to your king.

This seems to me, as one of the most interesting future aspects.

Something I would like to add to it is what perspective the player is allowed to take during the game.  Becuase currently you play as some kind of unrecognized god controlling things from the shadows.  I would like to see that when you get a king you control the fortress through the king's perspective, instead of just gaining a expensive and bossy noble.

The problem here is that the king isn't you. He's a specific dwarf, with a specific history and personality, and this will only matter more in the future when these effects are more fleshed-out.
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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #12560 on: February 14, 2010, 09:22:02 pm »

Anyone have a general idea as to when the kingdom, army and monarchy related stuffs will come into play? I would really like to see the things discussed in Core 27, 30, 33, 35, 46, 60, and the other things like offering to your king.

This seems to me, as one of the most interesting future aspects.

Something I would like to add to it is what perspective the player is allowed to take during the game.  Becuase currently you play as some kind of unrecognized god controlling things from the shadows.  I would like to see that when you get a king you control the fortress through the king's perspective, instead of just gaining a expensive and bossy noble.

The problem here is that the king isn't you. He's a specific dwarf, with a specific history and personality, and this will only matter more in the future when these effects are more fleshed-out.
Eventually Toady is going to have to get more specific with what role the player plays in Dwarf Fortress mode. I recall that there are plans to allow multiple sites to be founded from your fortress, standing armies to be sent out, etc, once your fortress gets a certain status (e.g. count(ess) -> county or king -> mountainhome). At that point, when we have a high-ranking noble who should really be making these decisions for themselves, we will need to rethink how the player manages to make the decisions.

How does the player manage to tell a dwarf on the outskirts of the fort that he has just been drafted into the army? How do they communicate to the manager that they want 30 beds crafted? How do they flag a lever to be pulled by a specific dwarf who has lived in isolation since becoming a child? All these things are possible currently and in the foreseeable future, but with no apparent mechanism and little consistency between different areas. Eventually we're going to need to know exactly how the player does all these things.

Of course, take it too far and it could ruin all the fun and Fun entirely. I doubt anybody wants to play a version of DF where they have to wait for the expedition leader to tell the miners where to dig, and communicate the layout properly. It would take a year to get the first dining room dug out. But some things are bizarre in the current situation. We can order a statue to be made from a specific metal, but we can't specify whether we want our dwarves to make a ring or a crown.
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RantingRodent

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #12561 on: February 14, 2010, 10:08:16 pm »

As far as I can see, the player's role in DF is that of the narrator, the storyteller. You do not represent any entity that actually exists in the Dwarf Fortress universe, you just influence and guide things. You are the hand of fate itself, which would fit with the way that Toady wants the player's decisions to manifest indirectly.
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Acanthus117

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #12562 on: February 14, 2010, 10:13:15 pm »

Never thought of it that way. I always considered myself to be the retarded god that controls the hive-mind of dwarves. Think about it. One dwarf decides to make crossbows, while another spontaneously decides to try his hand at being a marskdwarf, while yet another dwarf on the other end of the fortress makes wooden bolts and brings them to a stockpile.
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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #12563 on: February 14, 2010, 10:20:01 pm »

I doubt anybody wants to play a version of DF where they have to wait for the expedition leader to tell the miners where to dig, and communicate the layout properly.
i do, i want to not know where is my hunter until someone finds his corpse, AND returs to tell me the tale

maybe the player could be given a dwarf that is the effective leader of the fort, like an expedition leader, mayor, etc., and when this dwarf died, his son would take place, but if you had no successor, you'd lose the game, á lá europa1400

Urist McDepravity

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #12564 on: February 14, 2010, 10:23:24 pm »

How does the player manage to tell a dwarf on the outskirts of the fort that he has just been drafted into the army? How do they communicate to the manager that they want 30 beds crafted? How do they flag a lever to be pulled by a specific dwarf who has lived in isolation since becoming a child? All these things are possible currently and in the foreseeable future, but with no apparent mechanism and little consistency between different areas. Eventually we're going to need to know exactly how the player does all these things
As for me, fort mode is just '[evil] deity-mode', with player being non-existent and just 'influencing' local dwarfs. You do not have direct control over any of them, including nobles, so its obvious you are NOT one of them.
Nobles/admins are just mere mortals, who often die. While you, as deity, dont, and game goes on till your last dwarf.

What you are talking about would be more proper for adventurer mode, where you actually control single creature and game ends with its death. Would be nice to have all the options from fortress mode there, including commanding fort/kingdom.
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Acanthus117

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #12565 on: February 14, 2010, 10:26:53 pm »

That'll happen... eventually.
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Hummingbird

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #12566 on: February 14, 2010, 10:33:42 pm »

I wonder how the raws break down for medical practice. Like could the game know that what you're operating on is similar enough to a dwarf that the doctor would gain skill?

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Greiger

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #12567 on: February 14, 2010, 11:16:34 pm »

Just like STA 1  You are Armok.  You create worlds, you create creatures, you create civilisations,  You spread your influence over a wide area to control a large number of creatures indirectly, or you focus all of your influence into one creature, fully possessing them.

*Disclaimer: All of the above is my opinion. Not fact.
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MrWiggles

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #12568 on: February 14, 2010, 11:57:49 pm »

I wouldnt mind seeing more division of labor. Something like the Work Manager. This could be accomplished with Guild Masters, and be similar in fashion again to the work manager, where the paper isnt required until a threshold is reached.
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Strife26

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #12569 on: February 15, 2010, 05:34:29 am »

It's a question that I think I first asked about before DF talk 1, but

Is there anything preventing me from throwing all the vital organ functions into one size 0 hidden part for a creature, to represent said creature from lacking them?
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