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[Untelligent]

My understanding is that the new version will have extendable sky limits? If that is the case, I'm looking forward to seeing 3D visualisations of future mega-towers. I'd like to see a tower that pumps magma right up through the center and out the top, cascading downwards into a surrounding moat!

Mind you, it's not overly difficult to get mountains that are 100 or even 200 z-levels tall in the current version, like this hundred-story plateau.

The expandable sky will make this easier, but it's far from the most interesting feature in my opinion.

[Sean Mirrsen]

With so many features, it's frustratingly hard to name any one as the most interesting. I can barely remember what's added even. Burrows, squad rotations, better bodies and tissue systems, material rewrite, building stairs down, expandable sky, underground creature populations, improved caves, improved underground and HFS, and lots more, and any given one could be the best feature.

[Shoku]

Anyway, Has water flow been altered in any way as to better move items/creatures around?

You're right, I'd be really suprised if it had changed. The water flow isn't really so abnormal, just some of its mechanics.

I'd be surprised too.  Like smjjames said, "Update blood flow/contam pushes" was something different.

The way item/creature pushing works is that items/creatures have a chance to get pushed (depending on weight or at least creature size) whenever water flows from their tile to an adjacent tile.  However, this means that items/creatures in 7/7 water never get pushed, because to save on processor usage, the game "teleports" water to the edges of 7/7 areas without touching the parts in the middle.  Hopefully there'll be a better solution for this later on.

Perhaps simply an averaging of vectors could be applied to the surrounding tiles between the water's starting and ending locations.

If additional water is forced into a 7/7 tile, and is teleported to the other end by pressure, even just a quick pathfind (through 7/7 tiles) between those points could provide vectors for pushing objects without having to alter the very important optimization at work here. If the number of branches is very constrained, this could even work as 'streaming outward' if a source feeds into a larger area - the vectors are going to push things from the entrance of the larger space to the exit. A bit of code could even tesselate and branch additional vectors into adjacent water tiles to create whirlpools and stagnant areas that may realistically collect fish and debris.

Using the pathfinding that already happens sounds pretty appealing. It would be great if it could just fit in like that.

[madjoe5]

With so many features, it's frustratingly hard to name any one as the most interesting. I can barely remember what's added even. Burrows, squad rotations, better bodies and tissue systems, material rewrite, building stairs down, expandable sky, underground creature populations, improved caves, improved underground and HFS, and lots more, and any given one could be the best feature.

Dont forget the Arena/Testing Mode.

As a modder, I see that this will be the most interesting addition, along with the military screen rewrite.

[smjjames]

My understanding is that the new version will have extendable sky limits? If that is the case, I'm looking forward to seeing 3D visualisations of future mega-towers. I'd like to see a tower that pumps magma right up through the center and out the top, cascading downwards into a surrounding moat!

Mind you, it's not overly difficult to get mountains that are 100 or even 200 z-levels tall in the current version, like this hundred-story plateau.

The expandable sky will make this easier, but it's far from the most interesting feature in my opinion.

It'll make 100 z-level towers on a flat plain possible along with making flat areas that much more appealing for megaprojects. Right now, we are stuck with 15+ the highest z-level on the map.

While it may not be overly difficult to find a 100 or even 200 z-level spot, the hard part is finding one with good resources and has the features you want.

[tfaal]

Dont forget the Arena/Testing Mode.

As a modder, I see that this will be the most interesting addition, along with the military screen rewrite.

Not to mention custom workshops! Now we can take the [BUILDING_MAT] tag off of all the stone in the game, so that you have to make blocks to make buildings. And you could add a sawmill to turn a wood log into three [BUILDING_MAT] planks. Feasible wood building ho!

[Ranzear]

Anyway, Has water flow been altered in any way as to better move items/creatures around?

You're right, I'd be really suprised if it had changed. The water flow isn't really so abnormal, just some of its mechanics.

I'd be surprised too.  Like smjjames said, "Update blood flow/contam pushes" was something different.

The way item/creature pushing works is that items/creatures have a chance to get pushed (depending on weight or at least creature size) whenever water flows from their tile to an adjacent tile.  However, this means that items/creatures in 7/7 water never get pushed, because to save on processor usage, the game "teleports" water to the edges of 7/7 areas without touching the parts in the middle.  Hopefully there'll be a better solution for this later on.

Perhaps simply an averaging of vectors could be applied to the surrounding tiles between the water's starting and ending locations.

If additional water is forced into a 7/7 tile, and is teleported to the other end by pressure, even just a quick pathfind (through 7/7 tiles) between those points could provide vectors for pushing objects without having to alter the very important optimization at work here. If the number of branches is very constrained, this could even work as 'streaming outward' if a source feeds into a larger area - the vectors are going to push things from the entrance of the larger space to the exit. A bit of code could even tesselate and branch additional vectors into adjacent water tiles to create whirlpools and stagnant areas that may realistically collect fish and debris.

Using the pathfinding that already happens sounds pretty appealing. It would be great if it could just fit in like that.

I did a little exercise on this and its really simple to get interesting pushes of items in a water flow. This would work in brooks and rivers as well as the pressurized sources they behave like.

Pathfind from where the additional water enters to where it finds space. This should have some weighing towards straight lines instead of shortest path.

Along this path, create a vector that pushes objects with a force appropriate to the strength of the flow.

Now the tricky bit. When possible, create additional vectors with somewhat less pushing power to squares 45 degrees from the main vector. For each of these do the same, and each of those do the same, for a total of three iterations of additional 45 degree vectors whenever a vector enters a square of 7/7 water.

You get something like this:


Flowing from the bottom. Orange is the main flow, Green is the first branch, blue the second branch, and pink the third branch. I couldn't put too much work into arrowheads, but the visual effect is sufficient. This serves perfectly to push objects out of the flow when the stream widens and pull objects into the flow when its narrow. It creates stagnant areas on both inside and outside curves, and pulls objects back into the outflow. An object could exit and enter the main stream through here three times, flowing right out the top, or be pushed to the west bank to rest, or pulled into an eddy on the east bank.

For a half-hour idea, its quick, dirty, efficient, and realistic.

[smjjames]

It could also depend on how well the flow is maintained since 7/7 water doesn't push objects.

Theres also another factor, the flow is already preprogrammed to 'flock' (best term for it I guess) in a certain direction for a bit and then change direction. Its easiest to notice when theres a couple of units of one level such as a bunch of 7s on top of 6s or a couple of 6s sloshing around in a bunch of 7's. Other numbers work equally well, just used 7 and 6 for the example.

[Dante]

The best part will be throwing a goblin off the top, one 100 z-levels above sea level, and as he falls, passing through the cloud layer, getting showered with a light drizzle that washes the bloodstains from his face and broken hands, seeing a couple of red cardinals and a skeletal giant eagle that barely has enough time to screech as he flashes past, he has time to wonder about the meaning of his life, and whether he should have better spent it as a priest, waiting out the inevitable decline of his civilization to the dwarves.

Eventually he'll fall close to the ground, and the above-ground magma foundries of the dwarves will send up a smoke that obscures vision, but he is able to see that his fall is directed near to a pit, and just as he falls by the rim of the pit he passes by mere inches a dwarven toddler, scaring it witless and scarring it for life.

Down into the underground z-levels the goblin plunges, until the sun above is no more than a speck of light. At first he falls through a natural cavern whose walls sparkle with as yet unmined out minerals, then through a glass shaft that runs deep into the earth, through solid stone, though occasionally opening up to a lightless void where shadowy figures snarl in the distance.

That... that was beautiful.

[Ranzear]

It could also depend on how well the flow is maintained since 7/7 water doesn't push objects.

Theres also another factor, the flow is already preprogrammed to 'flock' (best term for it I guess) in a certain direction for a bit and then change direction. Its easiest to notice when theres a couple of units of one level such as a bunch of 7s on top of 6s or a couple of 6s sloshing around in a bunch of 7's. Other numbers work equally well, just used 7 and 6 for the example.

Thats the non-7/7 flows that were mentioned as already functioning. Those sloshings will push things around, but a large mass of 7/7 water is considered static for computing efficiency. If an object is in 7/7 water in the middle of a 7/7 river, that river should push that object if it can, but because its all 7/7 water the river is not 'flowing' in a computational sense, it just creates water at the first tile along its length that isn't 7/7.

[Lemunde]

So will the new surgeon be able to fix cats?

[Orkel]

So will the new surgeon be able to fix cats?

I think there's not going to be any vet care like plasters and such for animals in the new version.

[Flaede]

My understanding is that the new version will have extendable sky limits? If that is the case, I'm looking forward to seeing 3D visualisations of future mega-towers. I'd like to see a tower that pumps magma right up through the center and out the top, cascading downwards into a surrounding moat!

Mind you, it's not overly difficult to get mountains that are 100 or even 200 z-levels tall in the current version, like this hundred-story plateau.

The expandable sky will make this easier, but it's far from the most interesting feature in my opinion.

It'll make 100 z-level towers on a flat plain possible along with making flat areas that much more appealing for megaprojects. Right now, we are stuck with 15+ the highest z-level on the map.

While it may not be overly difficult to find a 100 or even 200 z-level spot, the hard part is finding one with good resources and has the features you want.

seconded. I found a 3 mountain area, with magma, bottomless pit, and a chasm. when you embark, two of the mountaintops collapse into the pits. Neverfails that your dwarves are on one of those two.

[Rowanas]

Every time I check in and see that there's no update I die a little bit inside. I've been holding off creating a new fortress since early january and I'm really regretting waiting so long, but sod's law says he'll be done the instant I actually start up a new game.

[Diablous]

Every time I check in and see that there's no update I die a little bit inside. I've been holding off creating a new fortress since early january and I'm really regretting waiting so long, but sod's law says he'll be done the instant I actually start up a new game.

Stop being me!