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[Lancensis]

Do hunters have any different AI so that they will realize the difference between a deer adn an elephant? [/color]

Only way they're smarter now is that they won't go out hunting with a single bolt. If you've got deadly deadly wildlife they're pretty much going to get mauled by it.

I'm hoping a burrow assignation might help, although it'll be difficult to keep the deadly creatures out of it. Be kinda fun to have your own hunting preserve, too.

glass generally has a 'melting' point of 1500 °C, which is generally hotter than magma.  silver and gold's melting point fall into to the magma range, so they might be 'magma safe' depending on the temp of the magma.  lead is a prime example of a 'metal' which clearly falls into the melted by magma category.  overall i'd expect that the temps given by toady are at least somewhat accurate, so the question remains if the change in material code results in things like magma safe wood doors and such.

I think the metals are accurate (with some guesswork) wheras the stones aren't so much innaccurate as incomplete.
Interesting fact: Molten Lead is usually used to represent molten silver in werewolf films because it melts at such a low temperature that it stays looking gray/silver instead of red hot.

[Shoku]

Sorry if this has already been answered --

Do we know if the new material system will get rid of the various "fireproof wood" effects, like a wooden cage being enough to hold a fire imp, or a glass screw pump being able to pump magma? Will we need to use magma-proof components for high temp applications?

Actually the glass screw pump is magma proof as constructions made of glass have a higher melting point than glass somehow. You can get magma right on the walkable tile and the pump will be fine.

Yeah, I've always presumed that was a bug, and it seems like something the new materials system might fix, and force us to use metal screw pumps for magma etc.

glass generally has a 'melting' point of 1500 °C, which is generally hotter than magma.  silver and gold's melting point fall into to the magma range, so they might be 'magma safe' depending on the temp of the magma.  lead is a prime example of a 'metal' which clearly falls into the melted by magma category.  overall i'd expect that the temps given by toady are at least somewhat accurate, so the question remains if the change in material code results in things like magma safe wood doors and such.

In this case the defined melting point of glass is lower than DF's magma but glass buildings somehow have a higher melting point than glass items sitting on a tile.

[Dr. Hieronymous Alloy]

In this case the defined melting point of glass is lower than DF's magma but glass buildings somehow have a higher melting point than glass items sitting on a tile.

Right, that's the issue. Whatever the temp settings for [material], the game should, in theory, treat it consistently, and it doesn't. The most extreme example is magma reservoirs made of Constructed ice blocks, but wooden cages holding fire imps or magma men or glass screw pumps handling magma also fit the bill.

[Hondo]

I made a throwaway fort to test a layout idea for the next version, but the main thing I learned was that a waterfall mist system is simply not worth the FPS hit I get. Which is nice to know before I make a "real" fort and spend a lot of time making all the pipes and mechanics.

Or you could do what I do: Build it anyway, but include an "off" switch. It's the best of both worlds!

I never, ever make waterworks without like 5 different points where I can stop it (learned from traumatic events). But nah I'd rather just put my dwarves to work on some other project instead. Next version I'm going to get ridiculous with facilities for my military and hospital.

[G-Flex]

In this case the defined melting point of glass is lower than DF's magma but glass buildings somehow have a higher melting point than glass items sitting on a tile.

Right, that's the issue. Whatever the temp settings for [material], the game should, in theory, treat it consistently, and it doesn't. The most extreme example is magma reservoirs made of Constructed ice blocks, but wooden cages holding fire imps or magma men or glass screw pumps handling magma also fit the bill.

Cages holding fire imps has nothing to do with ignite/melt points not being treated properly. It has to do with creatures in cages not affecting anything. They're essentially in stasis.

It's also not the same issue with ice constructions: Ice constructions are invincible because all constructions are.

So yeah, those are definitely problems, just not the same one.


I'm not sure what the deal with glass buildings is. Maybe glass's melting point is just very close to being magma-safe, or maybe the hard-coded materials like glasses and ice are screwy in ways I haven't imagined.

[CobaltKobold]

IIRC the in-depth test had glasspumps will melt if you get magma ON them.

[Chandrasekhar]

Yeah, the deal with pumps is that pumping magma through them doesn't necessarily treat the pump materials as though they're in contact with magma.  Side view diagrams:

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The top design will melt a non-magma safe pump.  The bottom one will not.  As for cages, I'm pretty sure that a burning item on the same tile as a flammable cage will catch the cage on fire.

[Dr. Hieronymous Alloy]

Cages holding fire imps has nothing to do with ignite/melt points not being treated properly. It has to do with creatures in cages not affecting anything. They're essentially in stasis.

It's also not the same issue with ice constructions: Ice constructions are invincible because all constructions are.

So yeah, those are definitely problems, just not the same one.

Sure, the underlying mechanics are different in each case, but I view all three as aspects of one single immersion issue -- the game has this complex temperature system, to the point where you can use a magma man in a cage to thaw a frozen river, but the cage he's in can be made of wood, and you can imprison him in a cell constructed of ice blocks, etc. With glass pumps, the whole pump should melt the second it tries to pump magma, but the game doesn't treat the magma as ever being "on" the pump tile, so it works fine (I believe it's the same with pumps as with doors, etc.)

As far as I know, all the points where the game does pay attention to temperature and melting point settings, it does so perfectly well. It's just bizarre that it has such a complex and developed temperature system then blithely ignores it every so often. 

[CobaltKobold]

Yeah, the deal with pumps is that pumping magma through them doesn't necessarily treat the pump materials as though they're in contact with magma.  Side view diagrams:

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The top design will melt a non-magma safe pump.  The bottom one will not.  As for cages, I'm pretty sure that a burning item on the same tile as a flammable cage will catch the cage on fire.

Actually, iirc the bottom one WILL make a wood one catch fire...

[shadow_archmagi]

Cages holding fire imps has nothing to do with ignite/melt points not being treated properly. It has to do with creatures in cages not affecting anything. They're essentially in stasis.

My own science has revealled:

You can put a goblin in a cage, and then put the cage at the bottom of the river, and the goblin will not drown.

You can put a goblin in a cage, and then toss the cage into a magma pit, and the cage will be destroyed but the goblin will not register as having died.

Cages are effectively a portal into a pocket dimension

[Dante]

you can use a magma man in a cage to thaw a frozen river

Does that actually work? I've heard that something like it would with SoFs...

Damn, that would have saved a fortress I once lost on a glacier. 

[Wavecutter]

800! I'm really excited about the impending new version!

[smjjames]

You're a post too early. this one is probably page 800.

Edit: nm, lol

[Nikov]

Last in before 800. Everyone after me is jinxed.

[CobaltKobold]

You're a post too early. this one is probably page 800.

Edit: nm, lol

Live and learn.

Posting just to 'get' a page isn't very useful, though this forum has no rule against it.