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[Footkerchief]

That [CUSTOM_S] argument would be redundant if only custom workshops could get new reactions. Does that mean that we'll be able to add new reactions for the vanilla workshops as well?

I don't think it'd be redundant -- it's a key assignment, from what I can tell -- but yeah, you can add reactions to certain vanilla workshops.  Kitchen, tannery, kiln, and of course smelter.

Firemen, conceptually, are made of some wierd plasma and in the new release, and I THINK its possible to make them gaseous somehow. So, they are out [...] Gelatinous might have been a better word here than 'unsolid'.

I'm not following your reasoning.  The reason he said "unsolid" was probably to avoid specifying whether they're liquid or gaseous.

[smjjames]

That was just my opinion on the word, it really had nothing to do with the firemen thing.

People have said that they think of Firemen as bieng made of plasma or something more golem like. Its just harder to pin down because they are suppoused to be made of fire, but fire has no substance or form, yet firemen have substance and form.

Didn't Toady say some time ago that pure liquid or gaseous creatures are not really possible right now? I know its possible to have boiling metal for blood, but not sure about other tissues.

[Arkose]

Firemen, conceptually, are made of some wierd plasma and in the new release, and I THINK its possible to make them gaseous somehow. So, they are out [...] Gelatinous might have been a better word here than 'unsolid'.

I'm not following your reasoning.  The reason he said "unsolid" was probably to avoid specifying whether they're liquid or gaseous.

If I'm remembering correctly, there are going to be four "phases" in the next update, something like: solid, liquid, gaseous and "powdery". (Maybe there was a fifth "incorporeal" phase or something for ghostly stuff, I don't recall.) I imagine that a gelatinous monster (like the famous D&D Gelatinous Cube) would be considered solid phase, just with material strength properties quite unlike those of, say, steel.

[Arkose]

People have said that they think of Firemen as bieng made of plasma or something more golem like. Its just harder to pin down because they are suppoused to be made of fire, but fire has no substance or form, yet firemen have substance and form.

I personally imagine them as a cloud of hot embers supernaturally constrained into a vaguely humanoid shape.

[tfaal]

I'm not following your reasoning.  The reason he said "unsolid" was probably to avoid specifying whether they're liquid or gaseous.

"Fluid" would be the perfect word in that case, but most people think it's just a synonym for "liquid". Which is a shame, because it's an great word.

[Lord Shonus]

Question:

Can a craft product be used as a building material for a custom workshop, and have the speed of the workshop based on the quality? For example, could I mod in a new craft called a "sword mold", then use that to build a casting workshop that makes swords?

[Footkerchief]

People have said that they think of Firemen as bieng made of plasma or something more golem like. Its just harder to pin down because they are suppoused to be made of fire, but fire has no substance or form, yet firemen have substance and form.

Any plasma in DF would be implemented as a hot gas anyway, and it's not like the distinction matters for firemen.  They're fantasy creatures made of elemental fire in the shape of a man.  Science doesn't enter into it.

Didn't Toady say some time ago that pure liquid or gaseous creatures are not really possible right now? I know its possible to have boiling metal for blood, but not sure about other tissues.

Nope, liquid/gas creatures work.  They just can't wrestle: "I stopped wrestling for non-solid creatures until there's more of an idea of what's going on there [...]"

If I'm remembering correctly, there are going to be four "phases" in the next update, something like: solid, liquid, gaseous and "powdery". (Maybe there was a fifth "incorporeal" phase or something for ghostly stuff, I don't recall.)

No incorporeal phase that I know of, but yeah, powder is treated as a separate phase for various reasons.  You may also be able to use liquid mists -- I'm still not clear on that one.

Question:

Can a craft product be used as a building material for a custom workshop, and have the speed of the workshop based on the quality? For example, could I mod in a new craft called a "sword mold", then use that to build a casting workshop that makes swords?

Nope, and you can't set job duration as a reaction parameter either.  Duration just depends on the skill needed for the job, like in the current version.

[Neonivek]

Science doesn't enter into it.

Well at least not modern science.

Go back far enough and Fire is practically its own element

[Fieari]

The four classic elements are plenty scientific. We just call them "States of matter" now, instead of elements.

[smjjames]

The four classic elements are plenty scientific. We just call them "States of matter" now, instead of elements.

In a sense I guess, yea. Earth=solid, air=gas, water=liquid, fire=plasma.

[EvilTwin]

I bet if we ask Toady he will tell us firemen are being hold together by quantum flux

He should seriously implement quantum flux... That'd be awesome

[smjjames]

I actually did have that question in my head but decided to hold back on it for some reason, so um, I guess I'll go and ask.

Just out of curiosity, could we see the raws for Firemen? because I wonder how you handled those.

[Rowanas]

I actually did have that question in my head but decided to hold back on it for some reason, so um, I guess I'll go and ask.

Just out of curiosity, could we see the raws for Firemen? because I wonder how you handled those.

We'll see them soon enough when the next version is released . Rome wasn't built in a day, but I don't think people were as excited about Rome being built...

[smjjames]

I actually did have that question in my head but decided to hold back on it for some reason, so um, I guess I'll go and ask.

Just out of curiosity, could we see the raws for Firemen? because I wonder how you handled those.

We'll see them soon enough when the next version is released . Rome wasn't built in a day, but I don't think people were as excited about Rome being built...

It was out of curiosity since I was talking about how the firemen are kind of formless in material and yet they have form, I was also wondering about how a tissue would work as a gas. Not as a vaporized tissue, but as part of a living creature, as far as a golem is alive anyway.

Also, since ThreeToe is on a glacier, that can also mean that the 'unsolid' creatures could be made of ice and its pretty clear by now that there could be caverns inside the glaciers. On that note, someone is definetly going to mod yetis as cave 'animal'men for the next version.

[Footkerchief]

I was also wondering about how a tissue would work as a gas. Not as a vaporized tissue, but as part of a living creature, as far as a golem is alive anyway.

A gas tissue would look exactly like the magma man's magma tissue:

Magma man:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Code: [Select]

[CREATURE:ELEMENTMAN_MAGMA]
[DESCRIPTION:Magma moving in the shape of a man.  It has a cracked black crust.]
[NAME:magma man:magma men:magma man]
[CASTE_NAME:magma man:magma men:magma man]
[CREATURE_TILE:'M'][COLOR:4:0:1]
[FIREIMMUNE][LIKES_FIGHTING][MAGMA_VISION]
[LARGE_ROAMING]
[BIOME:SUBTERRANEAN_LAVA]
[UNDERGROUND_DEPTH:3:4]
[FREQUENCY:1][DIFFICULTY:2]
[POPULATION_NUMBER:15:30]
[NOPAIN][EXTRAVISION][NOBREATHE][NOSTUN][NONAUSEA][NOEMOTION]
[NOTHOUGHT][NOEXERT]
[NO_DIZZINESS]
[NO_FEVERS]
[FIXED_TEMP:12000]
[BUILDINGDESTROYER:2]
[LARGE_PREDATOR]
[NO_DRINK][NO_EAT][NO_SLEEP]
[CANNOT_UNDEAD]
[CANOPENDOORS]
[NOT_BUTCHERABLE]
[NOFEAR]
[PREFSTRING:flowing movement]
[BODY:HUMANOID_SIMPLE]
[TISSUE:MAGMA]
[TISSUE_NAME:magma:NP]
[TISSUE_MATERIAL:INORGANIC:BASALT]
[TISSUE_MAT_STATE:LIQUID]
[MUSCULAR]
[FUNCTIONAL]
[STRUCTURAL]
[RELATIVE_THICKNESS:10]
[CONNECTS]
[TISSUE_SHAPE:LAYER]
[TISSUE_LAYER:BY_CATEGORY:ALL:MAGMA]
[TISSUE:CRUST]
[TISSUE_NAME:crust:NP]
[TISSUE_MATERIAL:INORGANIC:OBSIDIAN]
[TISSUE_MAT_STATE:SOLID]
[MUSCULAR]
[FUNCTIONAL]
[STRUCTURAL]
[RELATIVE_THICKNESS:1]
[CONNECTS]
[TISSUE_SHAPE:LAYER]
[TISSUE_LAYER:BY_CATEGORY:ALL:CRUST]
[BODY_SIZE:0:0:70000]
[BODY_APPEARANCE_MODIFIER:HEIGHT:90:95:98:100:102:105:110]
[BODY_APPEARANCE_MODIFIER:BROADNESS:90:95:98:100:102:105:110]
[ATTACK:PUNCH:BODYPART:BY_TYPE:GRASP]
[ATTACK_SKILL:GRASP_STRIKE]
[ATTACK_VERB:punch:punches]
[ATTACK_CONTACT_PERC:100]
[ATTACK_FLAG_WITH]
[ATTACK_PRIORITY:MAIN]
[ATTACK:KICK:BODYPART:BY_TYPE:STANCE]
[ATTACK_SKILL:STANCE_STRIKE]
[ATTACK_VERB:kick:kicks]
[ATTACK_CONTACT_PERC:100]
[ATTACK_FLAG_WITH]
[ATTACK_PRIORITY:SECOND]
[ITEMCORPSE:STONE:NO_SUBTYPE:STONE:USE_LAVA_STONE]
[ALL_ACTIVE]
[SWIMS_LEARNED][SWIM_SPEED:2500]


Except with TISSUE_MAT_STATE:GAS instead.

Also, since ThreeToe is on a glacier, that can also mean that the 'unsolid' creatures could be made of ice and its pretty clear by now that there could be caverns inside the glaciers. On that note, someone is definetly going to mod yetis as cave 'animal'men for the next version.

Ice is unsolid?