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[Zared]

I disagree. If such an alloy could be made and it's properties mimicked, don't you think that the properties of metal would need better definition? Our ideas aren't exclusive. They work well together.

What ideas?  You just find a textbook, put those numbers in.  Most of them are already in.  Bronze will be harder, but you can't make it without tin.  Wootz?  Add it yourself.  Historically, only one reserve of ore ever made it, and it took centuries to figure out why.  It's already part of several mods, anyways.

If you're suggesting actually using computer modeling to have alloys go in as recipes, and get their engineering properties to just fall out based on first principles, that's never going to happen.

Although, if there metals are similar enough (leading to direct substitution with minimal lattice distortion), the assumption can hold sufficiently well. That being said, those are very rare cases.

Also, I just realised, for that formula to be correct (assuming assumptions may actually be assumed), the right hand side would have to be 100 / density, not the 1 / d I said before. Silly percentages adding extra terms.

You really can only form alloys between metals with similar valencies, crystalline structures, and atomic radii. So, you'll always end up with minimal lattice distortion, at least for certain values of "minimal". 

In fact, most properties will be very close to the weighted average.  Most physical properties, anyways.  Unfortunately, not engineering properties.  As in, the various strengths (sheer, impact, compression, tensile, etc.), I.E. the ones we really want!  There's just no way to do it.  You'd have to simulate the atoms interacting...because there is no formula you can evaluate to give you the answer, so simulation is the only bet.  And that will take forever and you'll still have to approximate, because those damn quantum equations aren't fun.  If you model them like springs, that push if they get too close, and pull if they get too far, that's pretty close to the real way that atoms behave.  But even with that simplification, you have to simulate, you can't solve the equations for even only a dozen atoms interacting, and most alloys you would need more than that!  In fact, I don't think you can even do it for 3 atoms at once, without having to simulate instead of just use an equation. 

In conclusion, without some kind of unimaginably awesome mathematical breakthrough, there won't ever be an equation for working out the engineering properties of an alloy.  I model proteins...so if there's a good way to model atomic dynamics and have a highly accurate approximation, I'd love to hear it!   While it would be awesome if in DF, you could just go and say "Hmmm, lets add a bit of tungsten to my steel, see how it behaves!" you're basically asking the impossible.

PS, percentages don't add extra terms!  50% = 0.5, not 50.

[G-Flex]

Well from my POV a dwarf a dwarf goes best with a spear or other long weapons to counter the rangeadvantage of humans.

Dwarves would never have the range advantage. If the dwarves use spears to counteract this, the humans will still be able to use longer spears, and still have longer arms to begin with. After all, wielding a very long weapon requires you to not have short, stubby arms.

I believe an arms race of this sort happened in the real world, with the different sides of conflicts making their pikes longer and longer to get a range advantage over the enemy.

[Untelligent]

Dunno. Lighter armor means it won't absorb so much of the energy, e'en if it is easier to move in.

It'll still be damn near invulnerable against edged weapons, though.

[Sean Mirrsen]

And you can always wear a light nigh-invulnerable chainshirt under a massive steel plate if you want.

[Zared]

Nothing absorbs impacts quite like a Nerf®man leather jerkin, either   (Some modding may be required)

[G-Flex]

I figure that armor isn't just about absorbing force, it's also about redirecting it.

If you're wearing an adamantine shell, and the material can't be deformed in any way, then it'll still redirect much of the force away from the impact point. You'll still feel it, to whatever degree, and still might get knocked back or some-such, but you won't get your chest broken as easily. In that sense, it's sort of like wearing kevlar when getting shot.

Correct me if I'm wrong though.

[CobaltKobold]

Sounds pretty right

[Neonivek]

Yep a hammer the size of a human body, but STILL as heavy as an ordinary sized hammer would be relatively harmless.

That is why Adamantine Armor would still be good against blunt.

[CobaltKobold]

What heavy armor is good for, I theorise, is keeping you from being sent flying, should you not be able to resist it/anchor yourself.

[Nivim]

 It is agree that axes and hammers are dwarvenly, but the conversation on properties is making it look like the dwarvenly metal, adamantine, will be useless for dwarvenly weapons. How will you solve this conundrum? At least I think that sums up the last two pages.

[Manae]

I figure that armor isn't just about absorbing force, it's also about redirecting it.

If you're wearing an adamantine shell, and the material can't be deformed in any way, then it'll still redirect much of the force away from the impact point. You'll still feel it, to whatever degree, and still might get knocked back or some-such, but you won't get your chest broken as easily. In that sense, it's sort of like wearing kevlar when getting shot.

Correct me if I'm wrong though.

Plate armor and Kevlar actually work in very different ways.  The layers in a Kevlar vest constrict when hit with a bullet, absorbing much of the penetration force. It takes time for the layers to spread back out though, so bullet proof vests are generally just bullet resistant; multiple shots in rapid succession will penetrate the vest since the layers will be pierced if already bunched up. Kevlar is also useless against penetrating rounds such as your normal military ammunition--hence why the army uses ceramic plates on top of Kevlar--and also bladed weapons--hence why Kevlar isn't often used in the UK (and I think the rest of Europe), where you're more likely to get stabbed than shot.

Plate armor, on the other hand, really only serves the purpose of protecting from bladed weapons. Much like contemporary UK body armor, it's meant to not be pierced and redirect swings off of the body. That's what makes hammers so dangerous against plate. Wielding a hammer was as good as saying "so what if I can't cut you with a sword? I'm too lazy* to aim for your vulnerable joints, so I'll just smack you with this flat edge and crack your bones right through it. Let's see you fight like that."

*By "too lazy" I mean "unskilled enough to land blows before you skewer my lessor-armored self."

[Footkerchief]

It is agree that axes and hammers are dwarvenly, but the conversation on properties is making it look like the dwarvenly metal, adamantine, will be useless for dwarvenly weapons. How will you solve this conundrum? At least I think that sums up the last two pages.

It's only useless for blunt weapons.  Edged weapons like axes, swords, and spears will be devastating when made of adamantine.

Plate armor and Kevlar actually work in very different ways.  The layers in a Kevlar vest constrict when hit with a bullet, absorbing much of the penetration force. It takes time for the layers to spread back out though, so bullet proof vests are generally just bullet resistant; multiple shots in rapid succession will penetrate the vest since the layers will be pierced if already bunched up.

I think he knows that they're different.  He said "in that sense, it's sort of like wearing Kevlar," and the sense was that kevlar also reduces the pressure of impact, which is true.  He never said they're the same thing or work the same way.

[Shoku]

I disagree. If such an alloy could be made and it's properties mimicked, don't you think that the properties of metal would need better definition? Our ideas aren't exclusive. They work well together.

Does it help the fantasy setting or just give bigger science-boners?

And samurai trolls.

If you switch that to samurai ogres you'd be close enough to oni for the whole asia thing to take over.

Dunno. Lighter armor means it won't absorb so much of the energy, e'en if it is easier to move in.

In the case of plate the whole not being able to deform it thing seems like an obvious advantage. Sure it will absorb less energy but it's going to be able to distribute it over your whole body.

Once you start thinking able soldiers being punted about by dragons that benefit diminishes somewhat but for the usual instruments of war or even stuff on the scale of car crashes distributing the force over bigger parts of your body is everything.

Well really wish a thorough covering of adamantine dragons might have to work out different tactics for injuring humanoids physically. The usual massive slash might not have enough oomph, especially with them dodging about. Picking them up and making whiplash motions would probably be effective but a bit time consuming.

Well from my POV a dwarf a dwarf goes best with a spear or other long weapons to counter the rangeadvantage of humans.

Dwarves would never have the range advantage. If the dwarves use spears to counteract this, the humans will still be able to use longer spears, and still have longer arms to begin with. After all, wielding a very long weapon requires you to not have short, stubby arms.

I believe an arms race of this sort happened in the real world, with the different sides of conflicts making their pikes longer and longer to get a range advantage over the enemy.

Dwarves are stronger and have a lower center of mass so they could presumably handle more leverage. Humans only have runner proportions like that because you can give up a lot of physical strength once you convert your hands into clubs (read: fists.)

It is agree that axes and hammers are dwarvenly, but the conversation on properties is making it look like the dwarvenly metal, adamantine, will be useless for dwarvenly weapons. How will you solve this conundrum? At least I think that sums up the last two pages.

It should still be good for axes but maybe not the best when you're up against normal enemies. Against abnormal enemies it might still have an advantage. And besides, the real effort has always been getting enough of the stuff to get them fully armored.

[atomfullerene]

You forget the main advantage of lighter armor...ease of movement.  Really, you want to avoid taking blows on your armor in the first place...its just there as backup incase you fail to dodge.  So if you can move more easily with the same amount or protection, you are way ahead.  Ease of movement also makes it easier to swing quickly and hit your enemy, or to chase them if they run away.  And it increases your stamina so your can fight longer.

[Mel_Vixen]

I just hope we get a better system for weapons and armor at some point (similiar to bodies) because it would be interrestin to cut with a sword the axehead of an ax of because the handle was made from Oak.

Hmm Iwonder if at some point Elves or other races trade stuff and/or loot the idiots they had killed. I mean seriously? They have wooden weapons, given magical wooden weapons, but its still wood. Would it harm them so much if they would use the better stuff theyr enemys had? Imagine that! Elves in a Humans chainmail, Elven pants with a Goblinic Steel-dagger and Dwarfen adamantine-longsword.