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[smjjames]

My guess is that the -redacted- is either the 'old' HFS(clowns) which apparently wander freely now or 'new' HFS(name pending) which Tree Toe could have very reasonably wandered into.  Especially since he probably knows everything about what was added including the hidden stuff Toady won't talk about.

You'd think either one would have killed ThreeToes miners on sight rather than harass. Of course though, this is hingeing on what definition of harass is bieng used here. If he just means interrupted by an otherwise harmless critter, it could be anything, however, I doubt there are many truly benign critters in the caverns.

@Toiski: lol.

[Lancensis]

My guess is that the -redacted- is either the 'old' HFS(clowns) which apparently wander freely now or 'new' HFS(name pending) which Tree Toe could have very reasonably wandered into.  Especially since he probably knows everything about what was added including the hidden stuff Toady won't talk about.

You'd think either one would have killed ThreeToes miners on sight rather than harass. Of course though, this is hingeing on what definition of harass is bieng used here.

Maybe it was a tentacle demon sexually harrassing them?

[G-Flex]

Terminal velocity for a swing is thus not very well defined, but you could substitute it with any velocity (e.g. the maximum velocity the dwarf can spin himself around with the hammer extended) and still arrive at the same conclusion: An adamantine hammer swung at the same velocity as a lead hammer would have less kinetic energy (half mass times velocity squared) and thus likely cause less damage.

Air resistance simply isn't going to come into play that much when talking about how fast you can swing something, unless you're swinging it at truly absurd velocities.

So really, an adamantine hammer would generally be able to be swung at much faster velocities than a lead or iron hammer. Of course, I guess what you're getting at is that a person can't just swing something at an arbitrary speed: He would have to swing the hammer at a fairly impossible speed (given his own anatomy) in order to make up for the difference in mass.

Of course, lighter hammers in general aren't a bad idea: Real war hammers weren't the huge blundering things seen in RPGs most of the time. Being able to control the hammer well and have a higher-speed impact is important, so smaller heads than one might think were in use, even if the materials were relatively dense.

Adamantine might still be good for more of a pick-type weapon, which would be fairly similar except for the point.

[smjjames]

Terminal velocity for a swing is thus not very well defined, but you could substitute it with any velocity (e.g. the maximum velocity the dwarf can spin himself around with the hammer extended) and still arrive at the same conclusion: An adamantine hammer swung at the same velocity as a lead hammer would have less kinetic energy (half mass times velocity squared) and thus likely cause less damage.

Air resistance simply isn't going to come into play that much when talking about how fast you can swing something, unless you're swinging it at truly absurd velocities.

So really, an adamantine hammer would generally be able to be swung at much faster velocities than a lead or iron hammer. Of course, I guess what you're getting at is that a person can't just swing something at an arbitrary speed: He would have to swing the hammer at a fairly impossible speed (given his own anatomy) in order to make up for the difference in mass.

Of course, lighter hammers in general aren't a bad idea: Real war hammers weren't the huge blundering things seen in RPGs most of the time. Being able to control the hammer well and have a higher-speed impact is important, so smaller heads than one might think were in use, even if the materials were relatively dense.

Adamantine might still be good for more of a pick-type weapon, which would be fairly similar except for the point.

Yea, air resistance wouldn't matter because of the distance. If it was something really broad, then air resistance would matter.

Adamantine would be perfect for a pick since the tip is all that needs to be adamantine. Seriously though, we don't need to go through the physics stuff.

Although, if you guys want to talk about the properties of metals and metallurgy, then that would be on topic since we now have stuff like tensile strength, elasticity, compressive strength, etc.

Heres the metal template thing that Toady did earlier:

Metal template:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Code: [Select]

[MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:METAL_TEMPLATE]
[STATE_COLOR:ALL_SOLID:GRAY]
[STATE_NAME:ALL_SOLID:metal]
[STATE_ADJ:ALL_SOLID:metal]
[STATE_COLOR:LIQUID:RED]
[STATE_NAME:LIQUID:molten metal]
[STATE_ADJ:LIQUID:molten metal]
[STATE_COLOR:GAS:RED]
[STATE_NAME:GAS:boiling metal]
[STATE_ADJ:GAS:boiling metal]
[MATERIAL_VALUE:1]
[SPEC_HEAT:450]
[IGNITE_POINT:NONE]
[MELTING_POINT:12768]
[BOILING_POINT:15150]
[HEATDAM_POINT:NONE]
[COLDDAM_POINT:NONE]
[MAT_FIXED_TEMP:NONE]
[SOLID_DENSITY:7850]
[LIQUID_DENSITY:6980]
[MOLAR_MASS:55845]
[IMPACT_YIELD:1080000] used average for stainless steel
[IMPACT_FRACTURE:1080000]
[IMPACT_ELASTICITY:1000]
[COMPRESSIVE_YIELD:1080000]
[COMPRESSIVE_FRACTURE:1080000]
[COMPRESSIVE_ELASTICITY:1000]
[TENSILE_YIELD:520000]
[TENSILE_FRACTURE:860000]
[TENSILE_ELASTICITY:1000]
[TORSION_YIELD:520000]
[TORSION_FRACTURE:860000]
[TORSION_ELASTICITY:1000]
[SHEAR_YIELD:520000] used stainless steel
[SHEAR_FRACTURE:860000]
[SHEAR_ELASTICITY:1000]
[BENDING_YIELD:520000]
[BENDING_FRACTURE:860000]
[BENDING_ELASTICITY:1000]
[MAX_EDGE:10000]
[ABSORPTION:0]
[IS_METAL]


[deathc4]

Terminal velocity for a swing is thus not very well defined, but you could substitute it with any velocity (e.g. the maximum velocity the dwarf can spin himself around with the hammer extended) and still arrive at the same conclusion: An adamantine hammer swung at the same velocity as a lead hammer would have less kinetic energy (half mass times velocity squared) and thus likely cause less damage.

Air resistance simply isn't going to come into play that much when talking about how fast you can swing something, unless you're swinging it at truly absurd velocities.

So really, an adamantine hammer would generally be able to be swung at much faster velocities than a lead or iron hammer. Of course, I guess what you're getting at is that a person can't just swing something at an arbitrary speed: He would have to swing the hammer at a fairly impossible speed (given his own anatomy) in order to make up for the difference in mass.

Of course, lighter hammers in general aren't a bad idea: Real war hammers weren't the huge blundering things seen in RPGs most of the time. Being able to control the hammer well and have a higher-speed impact is important, so smaller heads than one might think were in use, even if the materials were relatively dense.

Adamantine might still be good for more of a pick-type weapon, which would be fairly similar except for the point.

Yea, air resistance wouldn't matter because of the distance. If it was something really broad, then air resistance would matter.

Adamantine would be perfect for a pick since the tip is all that needs to be adamantine. Seriously though, we don't need to go through the physics stuff.

Although, if you guys want to talk about the properties of metals and metallurgy, then that would be on topic since we now have stuff like tensile strength, elasticity, compressive strength, etc.

Heres the metal template thing that Toady did earlier:

Metal template:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Code: [Select]

[MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:METAL_TEMPLATE]
[STATE_COLOR:ALL_SOLID:GRAY]
[STATE_NAME:ALL_SOLID:metal]
[STATE_ADJ:ALL_SOLID:metal]
[STATE_COLOR:LIQUID:RED]
[STATE_NAME:LIQUID:molten metal]
[STATE_ADJ:LIQUID:molten metal]
[STATE_COLOR:GAS:RED]
[STATE_NAME:GAS:boiling metal]
[STATE_ADJ:GAS:boiling metal]
[MATERIAL_VALUE:1]
[SPEC_HEAT:450]
[IGNITE_POINT:NONE]
[MELTING_POINT:12768]
[BOILING_POINT:15150]
[HEATDAM_POINT:NONE]
[COLDDAM_POINT:NONE]
[MAT_FIXED_TEMP:NONE]
[SOLID_DENSITY:7850]
[LIQUID_DENSITY:6980]
[MOLAR_MASS:55845]
[IMPACT_YIELD:1080000] used average for stainless steel
[IMPACT_FRACTURE:1080000]
[IMPACT_ELASTICITY:1000]
[COMPRESSIVE_YIELD:1080000]
[COMPRESSIVE_FRACTURE:1080000]
[COMPRESSIVE_ELASTICITY:1000]
[TENSILE_YIELD:520000]
[TENSILE_FRACTURE:860000]
[TENSILE_ELASTICITY:1000]
[TORSION_YIELD:520000]
[TORSION_FRACTURE:860000]
[TORSION_ELASTICITY:1000]
[SHEAR_YIELD:520000] used stainless steel
[SHEAR_FRACTURE:860000]
[SHEAR_ELASTICITY:1000]
[BENDING_YIELD:520000]
[BENDING_FRACTURE:860000]
[BENDING_ELASTICITY:1000]
[MAX_EDGE:10000]
[ABSORPTION:0]
[IS_METAL]


But you forget, we are dealing with SUPERDWARVENLY dwarfs. Dwarfs care not for the trivial things such as physics.

[Wavecutter]

I'd like to see a Hammer Dwarf champion wielding an anvil with a handle.

[Mel_Vixen]

Gah my eyes bleed! Death4cuse quote more efficient  . I hate redundant reading.

[Reese]

I don't know if there's a proper term for it, but I think he's talking about the limits to how quickly your muscles can make your arms (and, thus, the hammer you're swinging) move... getting up to that speed would be pretty difficult, though, and probably cause damage to the swinger's body.

[Bryan Derksen]

Until multi-material manufacturing is properly implemented, perhaps alloys could be used as a workaround for those who really want powerful adamantine hammers? You could add an "alloy" of lead and adamantine called adamantine-jacketed steel that has similar strength to adamantine and similar density to steel, and then make hammers and picks and such out of that. Best of both worlds.

[CobaltKobold]

for those who claim air resistance won't matter, go play with a foxtail, then come back.

Heck, even try swinging a dowel compared with a cardboard tube. Air resistance matters.

I'd like to see a Hammer Dwarf champion wielding an anvil with a handle.

I like the sound of this. Too bad Wile E. ne'er could pull it off.

[smjjames]

We already have some alloys, bronze for example, bismuth bronze, rose gold, the pewter stuff, and some others.

So something like what you described could work. Especially now that we have all this metallurgy stuff.

[Morrigi]

It shouldn't be too difficult to mod in, even with the new system. This will be fun... 

[Untelligent]

What exactly do the impact/shear yield/fracture/elasticity in the material raws do?

The impact stuff had to do with blunt stuff and the shear stuff had to do with cutting stuff (which makes sense), according to an old raw preview, but it didn't go into detail.

[dwr]

Okay, people, here's a little hint about total kinetic energy in a swing (oh no physics).

Total energy is force * distance * cos(angle between force and movement).

What does this mean? Assuming a dwarf provides a constant force in any direction, a heavier hammer will hit harder swinging down and lighter swinging up. It will also hit lighter on a sideways swing. Why? Because in addition to the dwarf's force, there is the weight of the hammer. In a downwards swing, the weight is on your side. Upwards, it's against it. And on a sideways swing, if you're keeping it level, you have to have your force angled so as to counteract the weight of the hammer.

If you assume hammers can be swung in any direction from vertical up to vertical down, the weight of the hammer almost averages out, a lighter hammer will have a slightly higher average impact force, while a heavier hammer will have a wider range of impact forces.

In practice, you can probably ignore the small difference and just give the following: a hammer is a hammer is a hammer. How hard it is will matter more than how heavy.

[Mel_Vixen]

If you want to do alloys i can help you with a formula:
 
 According to doctor Ron  Lasky the formula of the density of an alloy is:
 
 Metal A Percentage / Metal A Density + Metal B Percentage / Metal B  Density (And so on with C D E ...) = Density of alloy.
 
I guess we need a example:

 

   Let's say you make a 100 g sample of this alloy, 60 g will be Sn,  40 g will be Pb.  The total volume of the alloy will be 60 g Sn/Dsn + 40  g Pb/Dpb = 60/7.29 + 40/11.34 = 8.23 cc + 3.53 cc = 11.76 cc.  The  density of the alloy is its mass (100g) divided by its volume (11.76 cc)  or 100/11.76 g/cc = 8.50 g/cc. 

edit: i still searching for formulas of the other properties (DARN! i found some stuff (like this) but i have to pay for it. -.- Time to get emule )

edit:  This page has the density of 300 Materials including wool an beewax etc. Make good use of it.