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[Sysice]

Don't forget that Toady made their livers 1.5 (?) times as big as a human's liver, which might mean lots of mass specialized specifically in alcohol removal.

I'm pretty sure that if a creature grows during worldgen, it does become stronger throughout worlgen instead of just giving the survivors a size bonus at the end.

[thedrelle]

Say I create a custom critter (call it a rock golem) which ages basically indefinitely and keeps getting bigger as it ages, to the point where it's eventually of mega-beast proportions. Will this aging, and its effect on the golem's survivability be applied in world gen, and hence the sizes of golem you might encounter in the game world?

I'm not clear at all on how world-gen or whatever works. This seemed like an interesting scenario to me, to eventually have a bunch of ancient rocky giants stumping around the landscape, destroying whatever they come across.

that sounds fantastic. i'd love to see creatures that grow to megabeast status.

[AbacusWizard]

Say I create a custom critter (call it a rock golem) which ages basically indefinitely and keeps getting bigger as it ages, to the point where it's eventually of mega-beast proportions. Will this aging, and its effect on the golem's survivability be applied in world gen, and hence the sizes of golem you might encounter in the game world?

I'm not clear at all on how world-gen or whatever works. This seemed like an interesting scenario to me, to eventually have a bunch of ancient rocky giants stumping around the landscape, destroying whatever they come across.

Wow. Depending on worldgen parameters, you might end up with a post-rockpocalyptic setting wherein all civilizations have been destroyed, no biological lifeforms larger than rats survive, and the horizon is dominated by shambling mountain-sized rocky abominations.

In other words, a very "fun" setting in which to play DF.

[Neonivek]

The game seperates Megabeasts, Semimegabeasts, and Powers into categories of their own seperate from their power.

Technically, however silly, you could make ordinary wolves megabeasts.

So even if you made a creature that somehow grew and grew until it reached a size where it could clearly rival the megabeasts it still wouldn't be a megabeast.

[Tonjevic]

I'm aware of how Megabeasts are designated, I was just wondering whether the scenario that I raised was possible -- whether entities in the game continue to grow and interact in worldgen in a way that's consistent with their raw designations.

I guess they'd probably have to be weak when small in order to prevent them from dominating EVERYTHING (so that they're easily killed before their size comes too much into play). It would also be fun to add a giant glowing weakpoint on the outside somewhere, Shadow of Colossus style. Maybe make them grow moss and forests on their backs as they get older, too.

Hah, I could totally get into an adventure where you go out wrestling Mountains in order to sunder their external vital organ from their body.

[Neonivek]

Well then I guess Ill have to say plainly no. A creature cannot grow into a megabeast, semimegabeast, or power currently or in the near future unless you can add it to the Caste system or something.

[Tonjevic]

Note that in my post I merely said grow into megabeast *proportions*, not into megabeasts themselves.

[Neonivek]

Note that in my post I merely said grow into megabeast *proportions*, not into megabeasts themselves.

Well then they were always capable. Though the Whale Shark already "Grows" to megabeast proportions.

[PermanentInk]

It seems clear that size is linearly interpolated based on age whenever it's evaluated, so entities originating in worldgen will be of a size appropriate to their age.  I'm not sure, though, whether we know of anything that happens during worldgen that respects this size.  The most obvious thing (and not hard to test) would be to base it on survivability in combat, since bigger creatures do better there.  You could compare the survival of two species -- one with an early-life growth spurt, one with a late-life growth spurt to the same final size -- and see which ones tend to survive the best by the end of worldgen.

[Footkerchief]

I'm not sure, though, whether we know of anything that happens during worldgen that respects this size.  The most obvious thing (and not hard to test) would be to base it on survivability in combat, since bigger creatures do better there.  You could compare the survival of two species -- one with an early-life growth spurt, one with a late-life growth spurt to the same final size -- and see which ones tend to survive the best by the end of worldgen.

That comparison has already been done in the current version, and it was found that size does indeed influence the worldgen combat calculations.  Overall I think it's a safe bet that the next version will continue to account for something as obvious as body size.  The bugs will probably show up with subtler aspects of body variation.

[darkflagrance]

I'm not sure, though, whether we know of anything that happens during worldgen that respects this size.  The most obvious thing (and not hard to test) would be to base it on survivability in combat, since bigger creatures do better there.  You could compare the survival of two species -- one with an early-life growth spurt, one with a late-life growth spurt to the same final size -- and see which ones tend to survive the best by the end of worldgen.

That comparison has already been done in the current version, and it was found that size does indeed influence the worldgen combat calculations.  Overall I think it's a safe bet that the next version will continue to account for something as obvious as body size.  The bugs will probably show up with subtler aspects of body variation.

I think it's more to see exactly how the game uses size in combat, and in what way it derives the value for size - whether for instance that value is dependent on the final size for all members of the race/caste, or whether development and growth are also taken into account in worldgen as additional size modifiers.

[Tonjevic]

I think it's more to see exactly how the game uses size in combat, and in what way it derives the value for size - whether for instance that value is dependent on the final size for all members of the race/caste, or whether development and growth are also taken into account in worldgen as additional size modifiers.

Exactly. This is the point that Neonivek didn't address.

[madjoe5]

Hi guys,

Toady has come down with the flu and has been sick for a couple days.  There will be no dev update tonight, but hopefully the future will be brighter tomorrow!

I blame the lutefisk.

[Footkerchief]

Exactly. This is the point that Neonivek didn't address.

Okay, going back to your original question:

Say I create a custom critter (call it a rock golem) which ages basically indefinitely and keeps getting bigger as it ages, to the point where it's eventually of mega-beast proportions. Will this aging, and its effect on the golem's survivability be applied in world gen, and hence the sizes of golem you might encounter in the game world?

The answer is yes, the game will compute the right body size (respecting caste, age, body size nodes, etc.) for your creature in both worldgen and gameplay, and that size will have an impact on combat calculations.  Unless there's a bug, of course, but that disclaimer should hardly need to be stated.

[Cruxador]

We haven't seen dragon raws, have we? Because that strikes me as something that should grow fucking huge, but only get there after perhaps ten thousand years.
However, my current understanding is that megabeasts etc. start out as adults.