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[Eiba]

Question of clarification: What do you mean by "among the limited options"?

Could you, for instance, set it so that a custom wood burner automatically burns wood to ash in its burrow?

Followup question: If that's not possible, could you make it possible? The option to automate whole industries with a complex system of burrows and custom auto-workshops would be a fantastic management tool, and it sounds like its almost there (if its not there already).

[Footkerchief]

Question of clarification: What does "among the limited options" mean?

I think that means the available parameters in the new custom workshop raws.  Here are the others that were mentioned: "The workshop was set to require any "building material" for its construction, which is a flag you can put on building/reaction items now (much like many of the standard workshops' construction requirements). You can also do the fire/magma-safe flags, rule out economic stones, allow artifacts and set custom workshops to be magma-fueled. You can allow any number of labor settings to construct the building, or leave it blank to allow anybody to make it."

Could you, for instance, set it so that a custom wood burner automatically burns wood to ash in its burrow?

99% sure the answer is yes.  Wood-to-ash is easy to make a reaction for, and the dev log seemed clear on the point of "modders can also set any of their custom jobs to be automated."

Unfortunately for those who want hardcore brewing, you can't yet require water for a workshop's operation, unless you go the ice-boulder route:

Reactions don't know how to handle buckets of water as reagents in terms of getting somebody to fill an empty bucket at a water source as an intermediate step.  You can get at the materials in terms of products or simple reagents (like a boulder of ice).  You can set your custom still to be magma-fueled, at least, or to use regular fuel for the reaction.

Its unlikely I'll actually see the response to this, but can we specify that a workshop needs to be over water, the same way we can over magma (like some of the old 2D buildings)?

I think this was about having actual water to perform jobs instead of an initial placement over water, and there isn't an analog to magma fueling now.  It wouldn't be that hard to add, and we can consider it when I do the first overhaul of the system, which'll be after this release.

Incidentally, for those who want replace default workshops with their custom ones (to avoid having two different types of wood furnace), you can do that too:

Also, will there be completely no way to get rid of the standard workshops? Would it at least be possible to remap the keys so that the custom workshops can be built instead?

It can be done building by building for this release provided you don't care about the implications (ie, they'd still have access to certain products), but at least it would clear up interface clutter.  In that case, the keys would work properly.  That is, right now custom workshops can be assigned keys, but they shouldn't conflict with other keys that appear in the list of allowed buildings for that menu option (workshops, furnaces, etc.).

[Eiba]

Honestly having an extra set of specialized custom auto-workshops sounds like the most useful thing ever- especially if they're limited to materials in their burrow.

You could extend the automatic wood furnace to a whole automatic clear glass industry, whereby you just have to designate the trees to be cut and the dwarves will do everything they have to to make clear glass goblets by themselves. You could even set up the forests outside as multiple burrows and have each one bring wood to a different burrow, so as to, for instance, have 1/4th turned into ash (and eventually clear glass), 1/4th turned into charcoal (and eventually steel), and 1/2 sent to the carpenter's shop.

You'll never have to worry about setting plants to be brewed again, just make it so there's a brewer that automatically brews any plant in its burrow. And then a kitchen that automatically brews alcohol, but make it so that the bottom half of the booze stockpile is in its burrow, making it so it'll only cook surplus booze. Set what to grow each season and your food will be taken care of by itself. Forever.

Set up a furnace that smelts any and every ore automatically, with an automatic steel process if needed as well, and then set up an automatic forge that turns all undesirable metals into bins.

The best bit is, thanks to burrows, you can assign a specific number of dwarves to haul exclusively between certain automatic workshops and their stockpiles, so everything is kept nice and efficient.


Burrows and custom auto-workshops, both of which seemed to have been added as afterthoughts, make me a hundred times more giddy than all the other improvements this next version will see combined.

You could always cheat and have the custom shops make ridiculous stuff, which would ruin things, but it would it would be so much more fun to just make copies of existing workshops and automate them.


Edit: Imagine this: a small custom bed and wood stockpile. The carpenter's shop can only take wood from this stockpile, and the beds can only be placed in this stockpile. Initially it's full of wood, but slowly the wood becomes replaced by beds and production stops, as no more wood can be put in the stockpile full of beds. You then construct a few beds, making space for an equal number of logs, which then get turned into beds.

In other words, you've just made a workshop that automatically makes a bed each time you place one in a room, keeping a constant number of beds in reserve.

Fantastic.

[Sean Mirrsen]

Alright! Now all we need is conditional automation.

So that, for example:

Manual Anvil workshop order: make iron sword.
Manual Anvil workshop order: "make iron sword" delayed: lacking reagents: iron blade, iron hilt.
(search for existing workshops with reaction product: iron blade.)
(search for existing workshops with reaction product: iron hilt.)
Workshops found. Placing orders.
Auto Anvil workshop order: make iron blade.
Auto Cast Form workshop order: make iron hilt.
Auto Anvil workshop order: "make iron blade" delayed: lacking reagents: iron bar x3.
Auto Cast Form workshop order: "make iron hilt" delayed: lacking reagents: iron bar x1.
(search for existing workshops with reaction product: iron bar.)
Workshops found. Placing orders.
Auto Smelter Furnace workshop order: smelt magnetite ore x4.
Auto Smelter Furnace workshop order "smelt magnetite ore" complete.
Auto Cast Form workshop order "make iron hilt" resumed.
Auto Smelter Furnace workshop order "smelt magnetite ore" complete.
Auto Cast Form workshop order "make iron hilt" complete.
Auto Smelter Furnace workshop order "smelt magnetite ore" complete. x2
Auto Anvil workshop order "make iron blade" resumed.
Auto Anvil workshop order "make iron blade" complete.
Manual Anvil workshop order "make iron sword" resumed.
Manual Anvil workshop order "make iron sword" complete.

If it hit a hiccup in any step, it'd stop the existing orders in the que, or downright cancel them.

[Footkerchief]

^^^ No coincidence that that "task log" looks more like a stack trace for a scripting language.  It's iffy whether any kind of scripting will ever make it in, although plot scripting etc. would be nice for the (very far-off) Editors arc.

[Azkanan]

Go Toady! Go Threetoe! Go Toady! Go Threetoe! Go Toady! Go Threetoe! Go Toady! 

[RedKing]

Custom workshop automation...awesome indeed. Now I'll have to figure out how to use that.

*ponders*

Suicide booths. Custom reaction creates something unsafe (7/7 water, 1/1 magma, !!cat tallow biscuit!!, hungry carp, etc.), set job requirement to Soap Making, Lye-making, Milking, etc. The real trick is in making sure that the suicide is neatly contained and doesn't turn into a fortress-killer (so, for instance, !!cat tallow biscuit!! is probably a bad idea...unless you set the booth up far away from the fort and forbid outdoor retrievals)

[Footkerchief]

7/7 water, 1/1 magma, hungry carp

These ones won't work.  Flowing liquids aren't actual items, but rather part of the map format.  Creatures aren't items either (unless they're vermin).  But yeah, you can set up a reaction product that will instantly vaporize into lethal gas, or set the dwarf on fire.

[Shoku]

7/7 water, 1/1 magma, hungry carp

These ones won't work.  Flowing liquids aren't actual items, but rather part of the map format.  Creatures aren't items either (unless they're vermin).  But yeah, you can set up a reaction product that will instantly vaporize into lethal gas, or set the dwarf on fire.

Cat tallow biscuit that instantly vaporizes into lethal carp-gas.

[CobaltKobold]

Toady,
Since you're cleaning up the tanning issues, I was wondering if it would be possible to add an auto-clean fish option (as discussed here, and here), and/or an auto-render fat option as mentioned in the first link above and here?

Ha ha, all right, it has slipped for years.  Details in the dev log for today.

  An invisible choir sings, and you are bathed in radiance...

Incidentally, for those who want replace default workshops with their custom ones (to avoid having two different types of wood furnace), you can do that too:

Also, will there be completely no way to get rid of the standard workshops? Would it at least be possible to remap the keys so that the custom workshops can be built instead?

It can be done building by building for this release provided you don't care about the implications (ie, they'd still have access to certain products), but at least it would clear up interface clutter.  In that case, the keys would work properly.  That is, right now custom workshops can be assigned keys, but they shouldn't conflict with other keys that appear in the list of allowed buildings for that menu option (workshops, furnaces, etc.).

Except for: weaveries dyer smithy magmasmithy clothier leatherwork craftshop, based on these exceptions:
Thread (dye, weaving are decorations)
Other decorations cannot be custom'd

^^^ No coincidence that that "task log" looks more like a stack trace for a scripting language.  It's iffy whether any kind of scripting will ever make it in, although plot scripting etc. would be nice for the (very far-off) Editors arc.

Other Side: Once stuff make it into the raws, this is easy for third parties to do.

[Footkerchief]

Except for: weaveries dyer smithy magmasmithy clothier leatherwork craftshop, based on these exceptions:
Thread (dye, weaving are decorations)
Other decorations cannot be custom'd

I meant that you can remove the ones for which it's possible to make custom replacements.  The bowyer's, butcher's, millstone, mason's, mechanic's, and siege shop also cannot be fully replaced, because they make use of item quality, animals, power, etc.  Of course, if these shops don't fit into the flavor of your mod, you can just remove them outright.

^^^ No coincidence that that "task log" looks more like a stack trace for a scripting language.  It's iffy whether any kind of scripting will ever make it in, although plot scripting etc. would be nice for the (very far-off) Editors arc.

Other Side: Once stuff make it into the raws, this is easy for third parties to do.

I'm not sure what you're getting at, since Sean Mirrsen was already talking about making conditional logic available to modders.

[Quatch]

So, is there a new version(with or without content) of the wiki ready to roll? I'm also hoping the current wiki version gets archived better than last time

[Footkerchief]

So, is there a new version(with or without content) of the wiki ready to roll? I'm also hoping the current wiki version gets archived better than last time

Not that I know of.  I've been meaning to start a thread to try to prepare some content for the next wiki so that we can hit the ground running when the new version arrives.  I don't think there's been any consensus yet on whether the current wiki will get archived.

Let's shift further discussion to this existing thread for now.

[Xgamer4]

I'd hope the wiki gets archived. Though, honestly, the entire wiki itself has always struck me as a very powerful, but vastly underutilized, tool. And I don't mean underutilized by people looking for information, I mean it for the people trying to archive information. It seems to get updated sporadically at best, and very few useful posts actually get carried over to the wiki itself.

[CobaltKobold]

Except for: weaveries dyer smithy magmasmithy clothier leatherwork craftshop, based on these exceptions:
Thread (dye, weaving are decorations)
Other decorations cannot be custom'd

I meant that you can remove the ones for which it's possible to make custom replacements.  The bowyer's, butcher's, millstone, mason's, mechanic's, and siege shop also cannot be fully replaced, because they make use of item quality, animals, power, etc.  Of course, if these shops don't fit into the flavor of your mod, you can just remove them outright.

...I don't think any of them make use of INPUT item quality. And I'd be surprised if Toady's custom workshops were unable to actually have output quality.

Butcher/fishery do seem irreplacable right now for two reasons: slaughter and the by-creature products (this could be simulated, but only in bad way- a reaction for butchering cats, one for elephants, etc.)

Jewelers also could not be replaced (encrust is decoration, and cuts are a skill-based weirdthing.)