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Author Topic: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items  (Read 3669713 times)

Akigagak

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #7590 on: November 29, 2009, 02:09:16 pm »

Your best heat conductor is going to be molecularly perfect diamond.
Just make a diamond sword and no amount of magman will melt it, either.
Melting point of 4030ºc (7280ºf)!
The problem here is that diamond is very brittle, it won't deform if hit hard enough, instead sending shards of diamond into the body parts everyone around you. and your own, of course.

But magma isn't very hard, it's a semi-solid. So maybe slowly, but forcefully, slicing would work with a diamond sword.
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BloodBeard

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #7591 on: November 29, 2009, 02:14:29 pm »

What have the download numbers been lately on the website? Should we start breaking out the "New Dwarf Fortress version, coming soon..." spam advertisements?

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Neonivek

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #7592 on: November 29, 2009, 02:17:30 pm »

The Answer to Blood Beard is NO!

Wait until January at LEAST

If you do it before January people will believe it will release this year.
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Aqizzar

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #7593 on: November 29, 2009, 02:20:16 pm »

And on that note, did anyone notice the devlog midday update?

Quote from: Toady One
One more to go, and I can finally green this section out on the list. Issues today were dwarves pitching off their uniforms whenever they had to get a bite to eat (as when they are set to not use their backpacks for food) and checking out sleep order scheduling. Last up is cleaning up various hanging issues with equipment management.

Squads done within November, as he predicted.  Rejoice.  Also, hilarious.

"Chow time!  I couldn't wait to get out of this stuffy uniform!"  What is it with dwarves and nudity right now?
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PencilinHand

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #7594 on: November 29, 2009, 02:57:19 pm »

And on that note, did anyone notice the devlog midday update?

Quote from: Toady One
One more to go, and I can finally green this section out on the list. Issues today were dwarves pitching off their uniforms whenever they had to get a bite to eat (as when they are set to not use their backpacks for food) and checking out sleep order scheduling. Last up is cleaning up various hanging issues with equipment management.

Squads done within November, as he predicted.  Rejoice.  Also, hilarious.

"Chow time!  I couldn't wait to get out of this stuffy uniform!"  What is it with dwarves and nudity right now?

I had noticed.  I am very happy that squads will be greened out on time.  The real uncertainty though lies in December.  And what is with dwarfs and nudity these days?  I suspect we will see a few comical bug reports from this once it releases.
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Nexii Malthus

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #7595 on: November 29, 2009, 03:16:41 pm »

Your best heat conductor is going to be molecularly perfect diamond.
Just make a diamond sword and no amount of magman will melt it, either.
Melting point of 4030ºc (7280ºf)!
The guy saying that magma can cause diamonds to burn/explode wasn't lying. It is actually implemented in DF already.

"Unlike other gems, diamonds can ignite if they come into contact with magma."
« Last Edit: November 29, 2009, 03:28:26 pm by Nexii Malthus »
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Reese

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #7596 on: November 29, 2009, 03:25:35 pm »

I wonder how that magma man slaying will turn out when you factor in things like artifact weapons... going along the vein that artifacts are the closest thing DF has to magic at this point, it seems reasonable to me taht an artifact wooden sword might be anathema to magma men and other fire and heat related entities.

and with the new version, we might have the potential for wooden artifact weapons if...

Toady, will the training weapons that you've added to the game be available as an object type that moods can create?
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Neonivek

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #7597 on: November 29, 2009, 03:28:06 pm »

Well an artifact Wooden Sword may not burst into flames... but I don't know if that protects it from heating up and burning the hand that holds it.

Though I personally wouldn't be surprised if artifact weaponry was protected from harming the owner in that way.
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Nexii Malthus

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #7598 on: November 29, 2009, 03:31:29 pm »

Currently as far as I recall, artifact wooden shields can be on fire, and humorously so, eternally.

Neonivek

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #7599 on: November 29, 2009, 03:32:29 pm »

Currently as far as I recall, artifact wooden shields can be on fire, and humorously so, eternally.

There are no words to describe how this makes me feel. It is like lame, cool, and hillarious at the same time. Lamahillakoolio is what I am feeling, I needed to invent a new word.

I shall call Merium-Franklin and ask him to add it to his dictionary.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2009, 03:35:12 pm by Neonivek »
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Shoku

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #7600 on: November 29, 2009, 03:36:27 pm »

That is not how physics works and you know it.

Isn't it? Thermodynamics? The Magmaman transfers enough of his heat to the sword and hand that his core temperature drops to the point where the magma solidifies.

Then the game's fact that "Cold damage" is all the same will shatter the magmaman.
Problem is your hand is typically hotter that the air round you all and the sword is room temperature at lowest. If that little heat loss solidified the magma man the air would have him always walking around with a solid outer shell anyway.

A sword made out of ice would be used up attacking it but we know exactly what happens when magma falls into water so you'd just need to model that as a wound in pretty much the area that was attacked.

A lignite sword would pretty much undo any of that sort of progress and probably make a crispy dwarf or ten.

I think it has something to do with potential energy. 

Can a candle melt an iceberg before the candle runs out of wax.  Or in this case, can the magmaman run out of magma before the wooden sword runs out of wood, the answer is obviously the magma man will win. 
Candles aren't burning the wax silly. That's just what makes the wick burn slowly instead of all catching on fire at once.

Sodium isn't a metal...

Not to mention that it reacts violently with water (or is that potassium), and is half of what makes salt.

Edit: Look here http://www.webelements.com/ its in the same column as hydrogen, the pink group are the transition metals.

You should look at Aluminum, that one is the highest heat capacity of the real metals.
Potassium definitely does. Sodium is half of a molecule of salt and that just dissolves in water (though it does make the water conduct electricity much better.)

If you know about the salt bridges used in batteries it makes sense that sodium conducts very well.

I never said make a sodium sword.  Dumping a bag of sodium of a magma man would really disperse his heat.
Well no, that's not quite how it works. Heat flow from hot to cold and it flows faster if something is cold (or the source is hotter- either way it's the difference that matters,) but for materials that heat flows through very quickly this isn't quite what's happening. They have low specific energies so what's really happening is that they heat up with very little energy which also means they heat up fast and so the hot parts quickly move energy to the colder parts but are likewise quickly heated back up since it's a small amount of energy involved.

They would still need to be sending the heat somewhere and since the air is the only medium we've got to deal with here sodium wouldn't really have that sort of impact.
But, adding much sodium to a defined glob of magma is going to increase it's volume. A magma man is not exactly a sphere but we can probably still apply the same general math to it. As a sphere gets larger it's surface area increases by a square while it's volume increases cubically, or to the power of three. Presuming the magma man didn't just get hot by sitting in magma but that it generates much of it's own heat it will quickly make up for any heat loss adding the sodium but will now have overall more heat energy stored (and perhaps more generated,) in it's increased volume while it will be only losing heat based on it's surface area so overall it will be harder to cool down.

Now, if you take a look at your computer (if looking in the case isn't too hard,) you'll see one or several odd metal blocks that have the overall shape of some cube but much of the area is hollow with it just having ridges that extend up from the base. This heat sink is for the express purpose of conducting heat into itself and then into the air. The low volume and high surface area swing things in a very different direction than spheres and these can very quickly puff heat out into the air. Nonetheless the air does fairly quickly become whatever temperature the heat sink is and thus there is no more heat transfer but the many fans in your computer keep fresh low temperature air flowing through for the fastest loss of heat manageable through such a setup.

SO, if you made steel heat sink type objects and embedded them in magma men and then turned fans on them you could potentially cool them down for some rather bizarre statues.


And on that note, did anyone notice the devlog midday update?

Quote from: Toady One
One more to go, and I can finally green this section out on the list. Issues today were dwarves pitching off their uniforms whenever they had to get a bite to eat (as when they are set to not use their backpacks for food) and checking out sleep order scheduling. Last up is cleaning up various hanging issues with equipment management.

Squads done within November, as he predicted.  Rejoice.  Also, hilarious.

"Chow time!  I couldn't wait to get out of this stuffy uniform!"  What is it with dwarves and nudity right now?
You tell them to take off their clothing and they're already drunk enoug that they just decide it's a party.

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G-Flex

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #7601 on: November 29, 2009, 03:57:47 pm »

Sodium isn't a metal...

Not to mention that it reacts violently with water (or is that potassium), and is half of what makes salt.

Edit: Look here http://www.webelements.com/ its in the same column as hydrogen, the pink group are the transition metals.

You should look at Aluminum, that one is the highest heat capacity of the real metals.
Potassium definitely does. Sodium is half of a molecule of salt and that just dissolves in water (though it does make the water conduct electricity much better.)

If you know about the salt bridges used in batteries it makes sense that sodium conducts very well.


You're way off-base here. Just google it; sodium reacts on contact with water, to the point of it basically exploding if there's enough of each.

Alkali metals aren't exactly the most stable things on the planet.

2H2O + 2Na -> 2NaOH + H2

In other words:
Water + sodium metal -> lye + hydrogen gas

Also, saying that sodium is "half a salt molecule" is like saying that chlorine is; that sure as hell doesn't make chlorine gas safe or stable.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2009, 04:26:14 pm by G-Flex »
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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #7602 on: November 29, 2009, 04:12:32 pm »

Candles aren't burning the wax silly. That's just what makes the wick burn slowly instead of all catching on fire at once.

Candles are very much burning the wax.  It's no coincidence that candles and lamps invariably use combustible hydrocarbons/lipids like wax, oil, tallow, and paraffin.  The wick burns too, but its primary function is to draw melted fuel upward via capillary action -- hence the expression "wick up (a liquid)".
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smjjames

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #7603 on: November 29, 2009, 04:17:43 pm »

Sodium isn't a metal...

Not to mention that it reacts violently with water (or is that potassium), and is half of what makes salt.

Edit: Look here http://www.webelements.com/ its in the same column as hydrogen, the pink group are the transition metals.

You should look at Aluminum, that one is the highest heat capacity of the real metals.
Potassium definitely does. Sodium is half of a molecule of salt and that just dissolves in water (though it does make the water conduct electricity much better.)

If you know about the salt bridges used in batteries it makes sense that sodium conducts very well.


You're way off-base here. Just google it; sodium reacts on contact with water, to the point of it basically exploding if there's enough of each.

Alkali metals aren't exactly the most stable things on the planet.

2H2O + 2Na -> 2NaOH + H2

In other words:
Water + sodium metal -> lye + hydrogen gas

Also, saying that sodium is "half a salt molecule" is like saying that chlorine is; that sure as hell doesn't make chlorine gas safe or stable.
[/quote]

I know it doesn't make chlorine safe or stable, I was trying to emphasize that it isn't a metal as in what we think of as bieng metals, iron, copper, titanium, platnium.

I knew Sodium is extremely reactive, just wasn't sure whether I was thinking of potassium or sodium at that moment.
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Shinziril

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #7604 on: November 29, 2009, 04:18:32 pm »

As for the magma-men, water's really the best choice.  It'll boil almost instantly, sure, but that boiling sucks a lot of heat out of the heat source (in this case, the magma-man), flash-freezing it into a nice obsidian statue.

Of course, whether this will work depends on whether fixed-temperature creatures obey the laws of thermodynamics or not.  I'm betting they don't (effectively acting as infinite energy sources), so this might simply end up making a lot of steam and an angry magma man.  As someone else said, if you could actually cool them down, they'd already have a solid outer layer from interaction with normal air.  Or perhaps this is why they almost never leave their magma pipe?  They have to sulk for a while to reliquefy themselves after a sojurn, and don't venture far so they can take advantage of the superheated air around the magma pipe?
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