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[IronValley]

In regards to uniforms, would it be possible to mod in tabards that are worn outside armor? (or, just worn with armor...)

[Shoku]

. There are a few side effects I didn't get a chance to handle -- a named item cannot be truly destroyed for instance (it becomes lost, as with a created artifact, and can reappear if you visit the site where it was lost unless in the wilderness).

Does this happen even if you atom-smash the artifact?

I think it's that the exact positions of items aren't kept for the entire world so when you bring in an adventurer the site reads through it's lists and drops down the items in appropriate locations. Artifacts would just never leave that list.

Even named ammunition has precedence. Just look at the Black Arrow that killed Smaug in The Hobbit.

Ninja'd by Quatch.

But it might be nice if Named Ammo didn't have the same chance to break as normal ammo. Otherwise it won't stick around all that long.

Well Toady could throw in a few lines of code to occasionally just stick the bolt back into ammo stockpiles. "Oh wow, we recovered the bolt and didn't even know it but I'd recognize this anywhere! Amazing!"

[zchris13]

Quantum stockpiles.  WUT

[Askot Bokbondeler]

In regards to uniforms, would it be possible to mod in tabards that are worn outside armor? (or, just worn with armor...)

i think you can do that already, cloaks can be worn over any amount of layers of clothing, the problem is, as it is clothing now, you can't tell your dwarves to wear it over the armor

[Neonivek]

Too bad you cant just embroider or engrave all the armor in the same way.

Well yet... At least for the humans

[Shoku]

Actually it isn't controvercy I am thinking of. Certainly not many people will complain if the personality percents are altered, afteall it doesn't affect their gameplay in the least (Final Fantasy Tactics did it, how much controvercy did it cause)

The real loss is a sort of restrictions on heroicness.

Though an arguement for Gender differences is specifically so that the game can actually have an impact when females step out of their roles to become heros and leaders. When they are all equal it is meaningless to see a female warrior or female leader or a Order of Warrior Women, their gender is doesn't matter.

Though on that subject I fully support Civilisations gaining preferences, restrictions, and privilages to specific genders. I don't mind Sexism in my fantasy world.

People who break expectations usually do so in a bigger way if only because they needed to start out with enough momentum to overcome them.

Anyone else think "Thud" when people are talking about dwarven genders?

On the note of named Missiles: Comparing arrows to bullets is a little unfair (despite DFs weapons firing faster than uzis), I do however agree with named siege bolts as they would be a little easier to salvage (i'll also claim fandom to Glen Cooks "Black Company" series where one mage makes an anti mage ballista bolt that he drags around for years).

They're shooting bolts about as often as melee dwarves swing a sword or axe. For arbalest shots that would be like an automatic weapon since those things were practically for shooting down a knight and his horse at the same time but the light bolts it seems like the dwarves are supposed to be using it's only maybe 50% faster than should be physically possible.

Or reasonable if you allow them to use designs that don't match our own history and region set up (and maybe drop the accuracy some.)

Speaking of american politically-correct stuff...

Are we going to have slavery? Pyramids wont build themselves...

I thought that's what baby snatching was about.

Speaking of american politically-correct stuff...

Are we going to have slavery? Pyramids wont build themselves...

There already is a form of "slavery" in the game, just not in dwarf mode. It's mentioned in Legends when certain races conquer another.

There was already a massive shitstorm about it, and dwarves don't abide by slavery anyhow, so no need to add it in any more.

To put it practically, there's about a million other things Toady could be coding so it's a moot point..

Oh come on, "dwarves don't abide by slavery anyhow"?
What with hundreds of goblins in cages which we throw from towers and use as gladiators versus wardogs and beasts we capture?
Dwarves are the WORST slavers in the hands of a player. There's just not a lot of control in game mechanics yet, but it's here since early versions. Also don't tell me that it's bad to keep people in cages and make them to work but it's ok to burn them in magma .

It's not slavery because they're not people n_n

There were things like Trials where Generals and stuff were charged with crimes before the 14th century.

Though they were little more then fancy executions then serious trials.

The crimes they got charged with were also things like "You fought against us" or just whatever they could come up with. Even with the Magna Carta if a King Wanted you dead he could arrange it. Just look at the Knight Templars.

We obviously wouldn't ever be finding goblins not-guilty, or at least not with skilled dwarves running the trial. Running them through court would mostly just be about happy thoughts for the dwarves anyway.

Why is it relevant that canteens come from the 1700's?
It's a video game with dwarves, not the history channel.

Why not give them electricity and throw up some tesla towers at the entrance to the base?

It's just a game.

Hmm. I don't know if Toady (armok be with him) has plans for this (que footkerchief with a horde of quotes), but I'd like to see dwarves actually bringing food and drink to parties and holding a proper dwarven kegger. Take more food than they could possibly eat and a dozen barrels of booze, set it up at the party location and then hold a proper party, instead of the mild "water-cooler" chats they hold now.

That would probably be good for around the time they start using musical instruments.

still, how do we explain our flasks not rusting or our lead flasks not tainting the booze and heavy metal poisoning our dwarves?

I'm going to go the totally unsupported route and say that their connection to stone included a bit of evolution to round up stuff like lead and just get rid of it like typical waste. Maybe they naturally produce chelates.

Really though most of the symptoms of lead poisoning aren't things we'd see happening anyway. It's just the morbid levels and effects on children that are missing.


As for rust and such I'd say no good Dwarf doesn't know how to do decent maintenance on their metal things.
It would be neat to see the clothiers use thread to repair lightly worn out cloth items though...

[Footkerchief]

Another day, another green item.  Plus confirmation in the dev log that yes, marksdwarves will fill their quivers properly!  I'm still amazed how steadily the Squads work is going.

One issue I can see arising due to the split (though it is already somewhat present) is that training all the skills needed during adventure mode may start to get a bit tricky unless you artificially start using them at inappropriate times.

Well, are they really "needed" if they're not even getting used?

Wasn't a notion of skill synergy thrown in too ? Footkerchief, help us !

Yeah: "There were several minor skill-related alterations, but the main changes were the addition of a situational awareness skill that works with some of the new attributes to handle attack-from-behind/charge surprise/ambush detection rolls, and the use throughout of the melee combat skill for other misc. combat rolls that used to be handled by total skill (a "level" placeholder that's now scrapped entirely). The melee combat skill (and archery) are also currently used to handle weapon "skill synergies" -- that system will likely be changed to something with more branching structure during the Combat Arc, but this will do for now."

Toady also posted a few more details about the function and future of the "Melee Combat" skill:

There are also general skills for melee/ranged combat that pick up some of the slack that used to depend on "level" (counterstrikes, noticing charges, etc.).  Those just need to be handled with the new atts and so on, but there's also something to be said for keeping the new "melee combat" skill, as somebody that has been using a sword and fighting in real fights with it for fifteen years would be able to pick up a spear or a mace and have a real advantage over a completely inexperienced person, and not just because of atts.  As these skills are given names, the melee combat skill might fade out and be removed, but I'm not sure.  There's something to be said for having a skill tree like Armok 1 had, so that say as a simplified example effective_mace=max(mace,sword/3) or effective_mace=max(mace,melee) and that kind of thing, but I just haven't made a final decision on that (what I'm setting up now won't feel it too hard either way if I decide to change later, so I'm not that worried about it, but I'll still have to make up my mind one way or another in a day or two).

[smjjames]

Quantum stockpiles.  WUT

Eh? If that is in response to the latest devlog, quantum stockpiling is just a quirk of how dumping stuff works and has nothing to do with item stacking.

Definetly good that marksdwarves and hunters will fill their quivers to full (or try to), even if its 100 individual bolts.

Anybody know what the capacity is for a quiver? Just curious since now that they will fill it properly, it could be nice to know the capacity. I think its like 25 or so as a marksdwarf can go through a full quiver pretty quick.

(in reference to the 11/21 devlog) By squad boxes, you mean stuff like chests/coffers, cabinets, and possibly bins, right?

Anybody getting the feeling that the barracks will truly become barracks now that the squads are going to be functioning like intended? Should be fun

[zchris13]

No, quantum stockpiles because you wouldn't know what was in the stockpiles until you looked, not the fact that you can shove infinite amounts into a dump zone.

I was referring to the poster above mine.

[Footkerchief]

Anybody know what the capacity is for a quiver? Just curious since now that they will fill it properly, it could be nice to know the capacity. I think its like 25 or so as a marksdwarf can go through a full quiver pretty quick.

Quiver capacity is 100 bolts, I think.  You've probably never seen a marksdwarf with a full quiver due to the longstanding bug.  Wait, you just said "100 individual bolts" and then "I think it's like 25."  I'm confused.

[smjjames]

@zchris13, sorry, was confused what you were referring to.

@Footkerchief: The 100 individual (as in single bolts, not stacked) was just an example since now dwarves will fill the quiver, including single unstacked bolts.

The 25 bolts thing, I was kind of thinking out loud and was looking at the devlog and was thinking about the rate of fire. Really I just kind of rambled off a bit, so just ignore that I guess.

Edit: I also often see bolts in stacks of 25 or multiples of 25, so I may have just sort of thought that, yet somehow 100 bolts made sense.

EDIT: Waiiit, isn't it that dwarves can carry a max of 25 in a hand? *checks wiki* Yea, its something like that, I think.

[Hummingbird]

Would the material or weight of one's footwear or gauntlets affect the damage of kicks or punches in the next version?

[nil]

Now that the distinction between the nature-aligned above-ground animal-people and their twisted, antagonistic underground cousins has been developed, will (should?) elves still take Tower Caps into account when conducting tree-cap diplomacy?

[Neonivek]

Well, are they really "needed" if they're not even getting used?

It is more that they arn't needed all the time, they are needed in an emergency, or that the opportunity where they are needed doesn't present itself very often.

"will (should?) elves still take Tower Caps into account when conducting tree-cap diplomacy?"

Why would Elves consider giant mushrooms different then trees? They are all just giant plants (without going into modern knowledge)

[Footkerchief]

Well, are they really "needed" if they're not even getting used?

It is more that they arn't needed all the time, they are needed in an emergency, or that the opportunity where they are needed doesn't present itself very often.

So what's wrong with having to train them manually?  What you described as "artifically using them at inappropriate times" really just sounds like training.

Would the material or weight of one's footwear or gauntlets affect the damage of kicks or punches in the next version?

The answer was no last time it came up, although that was in May and he was doing combat work as late as August.

Toady, are the new material properties going to effect people punching/kicking with metal gauntlets/boots?

I don't think they do, but I might be wrong, because I remember making a code comment about it.  I've put in an additional note to check.  Can't promise anything.

Is the material of the body part (if not the clothing/armor) taken into account, at least?  There was a discussion about metal colossuses in another thread, which made me wonder about the differences between a punch from a bronze colossus and one from a hypothetical adamantine colossus with the same size and strength.

The material of the attacking and defending parts will make a difference.  Now, there are some squiggles with that right now, and likely for a while -- for instance, when a hand punches, it'll look for the "best" tissue in there and use that (eg bone).  It doesn't damage the attacking part yet, so the punch can make an impression without just breaking the hand every single time.  There'll have to be some additional work done to get everything lined up perfectly...  for a while the hand will probably just be fine by default or something.  Eventually, I'd like it to make more sense, but it's probably good to let the system cool a bit at a good spot before trying to capture everything, as long as the current basic variables/raws etc. snag what's needed in the future, mostly.

It'll be really cool whenever it goes in, although it's a little ambiguous how a creature's scratching attack would work while wearing gauntlets.  It would also be interesting to have cloth gloves softening the force of a punch.  For reference, here are the attacks from the up-to-date dwarf raws:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Code: [Select]

Attack definitions are formatted as follows:

[ATTACK:PUNCH:BODYPART:BY_TYPE:GRASP]
[ATTACK_SKILL:GRASP_STRIKE]
[ATTACK_VERB:punch:punches]

This means that the attack will use as much of the available tissue as possible, rather than, say, thrusting with a spike.

[ATTACK_CONTACT_PERC:100]
[ATTACK_FLAG_WITH]
[ATTACK_PRIORITY:MAIN]

[ATTACK:KICK:BODYPART:BY_TYPE:STANCE]
[ATTACK_SKILL:STANCE_STRIKE]
[ATTACK_VERB:kick:kicks]
[ATTACK_CONTACT_PERC:100]
[ATTACK_FLAG_WITH]
[ATTACK_PRIORITY:SECOND]

This causes all of the nails on the fingers of a given grasp to be used.

[ATTACK:SCRATCH:CHILD_TISSUE_LAYER_GROUP:BY_TYPE:GRASP:BY_CATEGORY:FINGER:NAIL]
[ATTACK_SKILL:GRASP_STRIKE]
[ATTACK_VERB:scratch:scratches]
[ATTACK_CONTACT_PERC:100]
[ATTACK_PENETRATION_PERC:100]
[ATTACK_FLAG_EDGE]
[ATTACK_PRIORITY:SECOND]

This causes all of the teeth on a given head to be used.

[ATTACK:BITE:CHILD_BODYPART_GROUP:BY_CATEGORY:HEAD:BY_CATEGORY:TOOTH]
[ATTACK_SKILL:BITE]
[ATTACK_VERB:bite:bites]
[ATTACK_CONTACT_PERC:100]
[ATTACK_PENETRATION_PERC:100]
[ATTACK_FLAG_EDGE]
[ATTACK_PRIORITY:SECOND]
[ATTACK_FLAG_CANLATCH]