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[umiman]

I predict that the release date is the average of all the predicted release dates.

[QuakeIV]

Whitch is?

[Neonivek]

Whitch is?

It really depends if he means the average now which is December to February (making it January)

Or all the guesss... in which the game would have long since came out already .

[CobaltKobold]

ew MS. (234 095 - 143 431) / (365 + 366 + 20 + 31 + 6) = 115.055838 lines of code added per day. Note that this will not count actually-replaced code, but will count commented out code.

Isn't that assuming he worked on DF every day? For quite a while he was taking weekends off. So it would probably be more like 260-300 days a year which would have a big effect on that average for those number nerds

Sure. Though, for many moons he has been forgoing the "weekend lumps". If I wanted the real number I'd go and check the "end of month days" he posted.

I beleive the above should provide a sampling of things that either aren't started at all, or are barely started, that will probably consume considerable time.

I thought that about "remove demons as forced powers" too. Formations are delayable, I think. So is the 40d# stuff.

• Handling butchery/rot/fish cleaning/eat leavings vs. body materials

would be one I'm less sanguine about, for taking time and being necessary.

[Rockphed]

To be honest, I do expect the release before the end of the year.  I just also think that there are plenty of opportunities for a snag.

[Dante]

Yeah, I can imagine butchering taking a while to sort out, with all the new tissue stuff. Hopefully we'll see some improvement with the weirdness associated with the fishing industry!

Quetsion for Toady: How would you add to your game something like say this fish? The fact that such a thing even exists is amazing to me.

That blobfish thing is spectacularly weird. The physics of it would indeed probably be quite tricky. Fortunately, it looks like it lives way too deep to appear in dwarf fortress.

[Grek]

I wouldn't mind if Toady postponed the squads changes untill a mini-update after the big release comes out.

[Dakk]

He might leave formations out for now, which is alright since we probably won't care for formations till army arc starts. It'll be nice to actualy use the fortress guard though, now I can my guards some positions to, eh, guard, so the military can worry about military-ey activities.

[Footkerchief]

• Handling butchery/rot/fish cleaning/eat leavings vs. body materials

would be one I'm less sanguine about, for taking time and being necessary.

Yup.  Toady even mentioned that one specifically in DF Talk 4:

December was just going to be a mess of clean up, like doing butchery, because right now it doesn't understand how to read through their bodies to get like the amount of fat that comes out of a particularly fat dead creature. Because there's a lot of cool things; like a big fat dwarf - if you decide to skin a dwarf - a big fat dwarf would give you more fat for more candles and stuff than a little skinny dwarf, or a walrus or whatever. So that's all going to be cool, but it all needs to be done, and there's really no other way to do it, now that I've got these bodies, unless I just stick with the hardcoded tags that I had before, but in a sense I can't really do that either. And there's things like the hydra problems, like if you chopped off a couple of hydra's heads you would not want seven skulls instead of five; people insist on the five skulls, and I insist on the five skulls so I'm probably not going to put that kind of consideration off.

But that item is worth spending some time on, so I don't mind.  Current butchery lacks some obvious stuff like entrails and organ meats.  Plus, cloth items have sizes now, so if Toady decides to implement "having clothing item production consume different amounts of cloth," that could mitigate some weirdness like being able to make a leather robe from a kitten hide.

[PermanentInk]

At the meetup it did seem like Toady had some specific things in mind to probably cut from this release (and tackle soon after).  He didn't say what, but it's easy to narrow down the list of plausible candidates to something like this:

• Familiarity with individual weapons, attachment to them, weapon mentions in legends
• Ability to create formations and have squads hold a given formation at a position or during movement
• Formation drills, with training having an impact on the ability to hold formation and overall military discipline
• Booze instead of water should be allowed
• Ability to use free time for additional practice/drills if so inclined
• Consider rope/ladder/etc. building particularly for downward movement into large open spaces

I'd be happy to see any or all of these punted, and I have a hard time imagining the release feeling in any way incomplete for lack of them.  They're all cool, but if they weren't on the list for this release, there would be no need to add them; at this point in a project, I think that's a good litmus test.  If you can produce something that can be accepted as done without it, pass on it for the moment.

Anyone think there are other candidates for the cut list, or think some of the above must go in?

[CobaltKobold]

• Consider rope/ladder/etc. building particularly for downward movement into large open spaces

Anyone think there are other candidates for the cut list, or think some of the above must go in?

This one, or at least some way to construct DOWN is very likely to be needed for cave exploration. Presently you may not construct downwards.

[Footkerchief]

This one, or at least some way to construct DOWN is very likely to be needed for cave exploration. Presently you may not construct downwards.

It would be helpful for sure, but you'll still generally be able to dig a cool walkway down the cave wall or something.  Unless the cave is so big that you can't see where the cave wall is, I guess.

Also, yeah, formations is one item that Toady explicitly mentioned as likely to get cut.  It'll fit in fine with the siege improvements anyway.  Booze-waterskins and the individual weapon stuff would be cool, though.

[Aqizzar]

I would expect that quite a bit of the brand new feature stuff under squads will get cut out for time, which is fine.  Not that I have any idea how hard or simple any of that stuff is to design.  What I worry about though is how Underground Features still isn't officially done, including the "ropes/ladders" snake nest that hasn't been touched.  I have to wonder if he just didn't mark that off for safety's sake, or if Toady really is going to go back and tackle yet more underground stuff that he won't talk about.

This one, or at least some way to construct DOWN is very likely to be needed for cave exploration. Presently you may not construct downwards.

I hate to prod this discussion myself, but it keeps coming up.  I have to wonder how anyone can come to the conclusion of "building downward" being the natural answer.  Go up on your roof with some 2x4s, and build a staircase downward.  Then tell me how easy it'd be to do from the ceiling of a cave with masonry.

[CobaltKobold]

 Build staircase on roof,attach staircase to edge. I don't think it's good as a PERMANENT solution, but if rope ladders are that hard, I'm fine with them temporarily.

[zwei]

I would expect that quite a bit of the brand new feature stuff under squads will get cut out for time, which is fine.

Fine? No, it is not fine, it is necessary. Every feature cut from next release means it will happen sooner. Which is good thing for pretty much everybody.