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[LordNagash]

The fact that an unexpected hole in the ground immediately boiled over with monsters while Toady was doing something unrelated is filling me with glee for the next version.

[ToonyMan]

What I would really like to see is modable underground features.

Acid baths anyone?

[smjjames]

I wonder if the unexpected gaping holes was from a remnant of the code for bottomless pits.

[Sysice]

Imagine if you didn't look at the announcements...
"Hmm, this person has the name I wanted."
Your fortress has crumbled to it's end!
"Wow. He doesn't like his name."

[CobaltKobold]

The fact that an unexpected hole in the ground immediately boiled over with monsters while Toady was doing something unrelated is filling me with glee for the next version.

It seriously sounds like a Good Bad Bug.

[AbacusWizard]

Yea, now that we can go deeper than before, this is an extremely valid question. The deepest mine in the world is about 3,900 meters (12,800 feet) deep, over two miles down. I don't know how many z-levels that would be, at least 100 or more. Still, at that scale, geological features would become visible.

High technology and heavy machinery are used in modern mining to achieve such depths.  What was the deepest mine in the world as of 1400 C.E.?

These links might be useful:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mining#History

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Re_Metallica, a book about mining written in 1556

http://www.farlang.com/gemstones/agricola-metallica/page_001, an English translation of the whole dang thing (by future president Herbert Hoover, back when he was a mining engineer!)

[AbacusWizard]

By the way, you can do conversions directly in google.  Just google e.g. "3 meters in feet" or "the speed of light in in a vacuum in furlongs per fortnight" and check out the results.

...or you could just divide by about 3.28... 

[AbacusWizard]

Here is a good description of what the mines were like.

I was amazed by how little space the miners had to work in. Apparently they would find a vein of silver and just follow it wherever it went; so the tunnels are no larger than the vein or the minimum needed to squeeze through. The guide explained that medieval Europeans were usually much smaller than their modern relatives.

Ha! That sounds familiar, doesn't it? Did medieval Europeans also have long beards and drink a lot?

[Outcast Orange]

Most likely, considering all depictions.

I think debugging this monster will be a wonderful month.
Can't wait!

[smjjames]

Most likely, considering all depictions.

I think debugging this monster will be a wonderful month.
Can't wait!

lol

Anyways, this book thingy looks like a good read. Too bad I can't download it so I can put it onto my ebook reader.

I think about 1600 would be a good cutoff for mining tech since blasting powder was first used during the 17th century.

[AbacusWizard]

Actually I wouldn't mind seeing very limited use of explosives for mining in DF. Obviously you wouldn't want to use them anywhere near inhabited areas or tunnels that you don't want to risk collapsing, but they could be useful for quickly breaking new ground.

[Footkerchief]

Actually I wouldn't mind seeing very limited use of explosives for mining in DF. Obviously you wouldn't want to use them anywhere near inhabited areas or tunnels that you don't want to risk collapsing, but they could be useful for quickly breaking new ground.

Before anyone starts a gunpowder debate:

For those interested in a specific development timeline for gunpowder, I'll be faced with the question when I make the alchemist's workshop more interesting (assuming that workshop continues to exist).  Handling the workshop itself is a middle-priority matter, since the game elements involved aren't crucial but the the building is languishing in a limbo surrounded by mysterious useless raw entries like golden salve and gnomeblight.  I may or may not add optional gunpowder around that time.  I don't know.

Regarding gunpowder and some basic associated technologies, I can see myself playing either way, really, since I'm not that picky.  If I had to choose between having gunpowder on or off in a release distribution init file, it would be off, because Arnold got shot in Commando not Conan, and the Argonauts didn't get shot by handguns or cannons, and Medusa had a bow not a gun, and stuff.  We grew up with that crap, and our core DF, our myth/fantasy game, mainly hovers around that sort of fluffy nostalgia, but it doesn't need to impact you more than a one line file change.

Also, AbacusWizard, no offense but it's generally considered good form to avoid making three posts in a row.

[Nilik]

However, if you consider the staggering size of that, imagine the MASSIVE amount of stone that could result. We are going to need a far more efficient method of dealing with excess stone if we are going to do much more than a small borehole and a few long tunnels down that deep.

This brings up another question:

When will there be more efficient ways of dealing with excess stone? I know we have ways to get rid of it, but it has to be hauled first and hauling stone one by one is extremely inefficient when we are talking about tens of thousands of rock. A few thousand is doable if you have patience or you use [SPEED:0], but with tens of thousands, it takes quite a while even with [SPEED:0]

So, when will we be getting a portable (or otherwise mobile) mining laser to vaporize said rock? (making a joke, obviously)

Actually, I think rock hauling is about right as it is; its everything-else-hauling that needs, appropriately enough, an overhaul.

I figure (and correct me if i'm wrong) a "rock" as depicted in-game represents one tile worth of stone. That's a LOT of stone. Several tons worth. A single dwarf can carry all that stone in one go, but that's ok because realistically a day would take more than about 30 seconds and they'd just make a lot of trips. Still, rock hauling IS a big task, and I wouldn't object if it became a full-time job for half a dozen dwarves in a mature fortress... although it'd be nice if they got some kind of strength gain for all that heavy lifting.

What bothers me is that a rock representing several tons of stone takes up as much space in a dwarf's hands as an axe, or a crossbow bolt, or a coin. If his hands are "full", he can't carry anything else, but I think most of us are capable of carrying more than two objects with us most of the time. Do you have a set of keys and a phone on you? Oh crap, i'm overburdened, I'll have to drop my wallet! Methinks dwaves need to discover the awesome power of pockets. Or perhaps using bags attached to belts would be a more old-timey solution.

I agree with you in principle though; hauling does need an overhaul at some point, but I think moving chunks of mountin around should be a little labor-intensive.

[CobaltKobold]

Belt-pouches feel more appropriate than pockets, for general populace.
Soldiers'll already carry around supplies (in backpacks) and ammunition (in quivers).

[zwei]

Here is a good description of what the mines were like.

Hey, i was in that actual mine!

They were indeed child-sized and quite expansive. There was not air cycling nor did we see any pumping mechanism.