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[Qmarx]

I'm not sure if I would ever want my dwarves to have slaves.

I agree. Dwarves take pride in their work, and ENJOY toiling, so it doesn't make much sense to me for them to belittle any of their work enough to assign it to slaves, which are essentially unpersons.

After looking at entity_default.txt, it seems that dwarves currently punish slave-holding with death anyway. Humans are totally okay with it, of course.

I think it's more along the lines of dwarves not allowing slaves to own other slaves.

And since they're already slaves to Armok...

[Granite26]

whether it's dwarfy or not has nothing to do with whether it should be in or not.

[G-Flex]

I'm not sure if I would ever want my dwarves to have slaves.

I agree. Dwarves take pride in their work, and ENJOY toiling, so it doesn't make much sense to me for them to belittle any of their work enough to assign it to slaves, which are essentially unpersons.

After looking at entity_default.txt, it seems that dwarves currently punish slave-holding with death anyway. Humans are totally okay with it, of course.

I think it's more along the lines of dwarves not allowing slaves to own other slaves.

And since they're already slaves to Armok...

Huh? No, I'm pretty sure the SLAVERY ethic controls whether or not a civilization actually allows slavery. A slave-holding society allowing its slaves to hold slaves would just be... odd.

whether it's dwarfy or not has nothing to do with whether it should be in or not.

Right. I was never saying that I can't see slaves being in the game, just that I don't see dwarves THEMSELVES doing it. Humans, sure.

[Mel_Vixen]

Not so odd as you may think. Slavery at itself means only that you are owned by someone. How far your rights ,as slave, go is another thing and i can see a culture there a highclass/caste slave could own lower class/caste slaves by himself. Also not all slaves in history were rightless or were treated like that.

to quote Wikipedia once more:

[...]while household slaves of rich families in Rome (familia urbana) likely enjoyed the highest standard of living among Roman slaves, together with a more intricate social experience. Though their room and board would be of a significantly lower quality than that of the free members of the familia, it may have been comparable to that of many free but poor Romans.Domestic slaves could be found working as barbers, butlers, cooks, hairdressers, maids, nurses, teachers, secretaries, and seamstresses. Slaves with more education and intelligence could even work in professions such as accounting, education and medicine. [...]

edit: The Romans passed laws that increasingly restricted the power of masters over their slaves and children. It is difficult to assess how well the laws were enforced. Claudius ruled that if a master abandoned an old or sick slave, the slave became free. Under Nero, slaves were given the right to complain against their masters in court. During the reign of Antoninus Pius, it was ruled that a slave could claim his freedom if treated cruelly, and that a master who killed his slave without just cause could be tried for homicide. At the same time, it became more difficult for a person to fall into slavery under Roman law. By the time of Diocletian, free men could not sell their children or even themselves into slavery, and creditors could not claim insolvent debtors as slaves.

[Savok]

I'm highly for a slavery mechanic that allows slaves in Fortress Mode.

I'm highly against the aforementioned slavery mechanic being used by dwarves. Only useful if you play a human or other fortress.

[SirHoneyBadger]

How about the goblins? Obviously they kidnap children, but are the children slaves, or are they brainwashed (and is there a difference?), or is there something else holding their loyalty?

If humans are slavers, and dwarfs are not, how do goblins--aka the "evil" race (if infact that's actually even true), fit into the picture?

[Warlord255]

A QUICK question divorced from the current topics for when Toady should next grace us with an answer storm;

I recall some mention in the devnotes that new workshops are being opened for interaction with the Reaction raws; among them, the Alchemist's Laboratory and Millstone/Quern jobs.

Is it still true that we can make reactions in these workshops (and if there are others, what are they?); and, can these new reactions handle items in barrels and/or vials, or corpse/harvested items like shell or horn?

That is all. Carry on your slave discussions.

[G-Flex]

Goblins have [ETHIC:SLAVERY:PERSONAL_MATTER], as with a lot of their ethics.

In other words, they probably don't have the sort of complex social structure built around slavery that humans would, but goblins who want to own slaves and can get away with it sure can. This applies to a lot of goblin endeavors; they have the same damn ethics value for murder.

[Felblood]

Think of what we could do with a tag like [ETHIC:MISTREAT_SLAVE:ACCEPTABLE].

Mmmmm. Evil.

[Footkerchief]

I recall some mention in the devnotes that new workshops are being opened for interaction with the Reaction raws; among them, the Alchemist's Laboratory and Millstone/Quern jobs.

Is it still true that we can make reactions in these workshops (and if there are others, what are they?); and, can these new reactions handle items in barrels and/or vials, or corpse/harvested items like shell or horn?

It looks like it's Tannery, Kitchen and Alchemist's.  Not the Mill, unfortunately.  But as for your actual question, I'm curious about the barrel/vial thing too.

[Tormy]

I'd like to second the "no slaves for dwarfs" idea. I agree that, considering their interests and their culture, it just doesn't seem like something they'd do.

I don't know... What about "evil" dwarves for example? Slavery should be acceptable for them. [Hint: Dark Dwarves [Derro] in Dragonlance]
Hell, it should be ok for "normal" dwarves even. Using captured goblin, human etc. prisoners as slaves looks valid & acceptable to me, it has nothing to do with "alignments" or culture at all...but again this is my subjective opinion. 

[Kagus]

I know it's been said before, and I also know it will be said again, but I feel a need to say it now.


Just when you think this game can't get any more awesome, it does.  Tarn, you are a god among mere mortals.

[Arkose]

I'd like to second the "no slaves for dwarfs" idea. I agree that, considering their interests and their culture, it just doesn't seem like something they'd do.

I don't know... What about "evil" dwarves for example? Slavery should be acceptable for them.

Currently, you could do something like this by making an "Evil Dwarf Civilization" entity that uses the same standard dwarf creature definitions.

I don't think that there is any way to have members of an entity whose morals differ from that of their parent entity. (Yet.)

[Vlynndar]

I know it's been said before, and I also know it will be said again, but I feel a need to say it now.


Just when you think this game can't get any more awesome, it does.  Tarn, you are a god among mere mortals.

A dwarven god.

[Neonivek]

I am sure Dwarves with slaves will be MUCH further down the line when Toady impliments a Civilisation range. (So we can get peaceful Humans to Warlike Humans)