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[Flaede]

If linked with cultures and Morals this could be very nice. Slaves/prisoners/animals getting barcodes at Goblin civs.

Er, not unless you can find an instance of a pre-1400's era UPC scanning gun. 

I could certainly see prisoners being numbered though.

I immediately thought branding. Both of prisoners, slaves, cattle, and criminals. That last one was the lynch pin for me - a nice Fleur de Lis shaped scar discovered on that Noble Consort's shoulder and she could be revealed as a total heretic/evil-criminal and executed by the Palace Guard.

[Aqizzar]

If linked with cultures and Morals this could be very nice. Slaves/prisoners/animals getting barcodes at Goblin civs.

Er, not unless you can find an instance of a pre-1400's era UPC scanning gun. 

I could certainly see prisoners being numbered though.

They're dwarves.  We're players.  The goblins will have barcodes chiseled into their skulls.  And the dwarves will pay no attention to the barcodes, because the menu is unintuitive, and they'll pit all the gobs anyway.

[Neonivek]

I think he means Branding... Which I don't think was done EXACTLY through tatoos. It was done with a hot Iron.

I also don't know if all places did that with slaves. Mind you Goblins don't take Slaves... Humans do. The Goblins treat those snatched babies relatively well if I remember correctly

mind you... I don't think people would really argue if an intentional Burn Scar was a tatoo or not.

[Mel_Vixen]

I meant tattoos, the barcode was only a funny example. A tattoo has the advantage that it can carry many informations like:

- the name of the slave
- the name of the owner
- the owners home
- the slaves status (if slaves are organised in castes)
- the slaves abilitys (jobs, know languages)
- comited crimes
- cause of thralldom/ being slave
- warnings
- Family tree

and many more if we are use our fantasy a bit. You do brandings for mass produced products like entire cattle herds. Slaves on the other hand are as intelligent breeding stock and Workforce much more valuable. Also Tattooing if done right is less painfull then hot iron branding and you dont need hundrets of brandirons.

[Aqizzar]

Unless you use modular branding pieces.  Like a movable-type printing press, just made of red hot metal.

Sounds rather dwarven really.  Let's get some mechanics up in this.

[Neonivek]

You only need ONE brand Iron with a symbol of your family.

So if your Slave Runs away... they see the Scar... and they thus send him back. If he switches hands you give him another branding!

[Flaede]

Yep, thass what I meant

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_branding#Marking_the_rightless

[Mel_Vixen]

Detailed Tattoos makes also shoping easyer if you can say to your guards: "I need one dwarven Writer with appraiser and bookkeeper skill who knows elven, 15 Human Farmers, 3 elven weavers, 1 elven Dyer, 1 human cook, 1 dwarven brewer and one Female of every Race for the guards at home. Noone with crimes higher then theft. Entire familys if possible. Noone older then 30."

Also Slaves are valueable products damageing them would lower this value.

Well both Branding and tattooing could be possible depending on the civs values, traditions and worth of the slave.

Heck i must sound like an Monster.

[Neonivek]

Tatoos at this time were probably more dangerous than branding.

Or at least to a slave... and at least to the extent you want to tatoo them.

[Flaede]

Also Slaves are valueable products damageing them would lower this value.

And yet it has  been a followed practice in so many of the good historical examples of slavery.

It really depends on what you're worried about "damaging". I also think that it is a lot more "cost effective" than detailed, time consuming tattoos. And as for danger - branding cauterizes. Tattoos... don't so much. And crude ones often contain heavy metals... in a not-god way. And infection. As for the options to use it to mark thieves, traitors, exiles, penal-colony members etc. in the justice system... "damaging" isn't so much of a concern there, and brands are harder to alter compared to tattoos.

agh. this is the wrong spot to speculate anyways, isn't it? I just want to know if SOME sort of body mod culture is going to make it in. Even if it's not a punishmnt option.

[Neonivek]

Well Slaves ARE valuable... However they are historically worth more being slaved to death... then being treated well until they die.

For example that was how it was for Roman Slaves. Mostly because it was cheaper to buy a Slave then treat them well. So work them to death and buy more!
-Though mind you... the one thing a lot of people forget about the Romans... was that they were very into slaving!

[Aqizzar]

We all sound like monsters.  I was just thinking about how Three Toe was inspired to write a story of a dwarf fortress, as run by the typical forum-goer.  I wonder if he had any idea how much deeper we could go.

[Mel_Vixen]

Both ways were used and tattooing wasnt not that much more dangerous then branding (i have some accidental "branding" scars which got infected too). Infact many Sailors had identification tattoos and tribes like the Maori did tattooing for many many years.

So i say both things have theyr usage and if i were low at money i would rather brand then tattoo my cattle.

Well apart from slaves i would like to see tattoos and brandings for art. Being killed from an fully tattooed tribesman with an pointy stick is more stylish then from a cheese-white guy with an poity stick.

[Flaede]

We all sound like monsters.  I was just thinking about how Three Toe was inspired to write a story of a dwarf fortress, as run by the typical forum-goer.  I wonder if he had any idea how much deeper we could go.

I think he had a guess. I remember that story too.
It's odd, when I suggested somewhere that betrayed/sacked civs could demand reparations I was told I was being tactless, as though it were a joke. I was serious. We need to be penalized a little more when we totally give into greed and lust for wealth and blood (an, apparently, slaves).

Heph - you mentioned sailors. I just realized that intitation rites for military Squads could use tattoos/branding. And cults (and fraternities) use branding, and volutary religious marks as a rte of passage is a cool thought.

[Willfor]

I'm not sure if I would ever want my dwarves to have slaves. On the other hand, when I am playing a human fortress, slaves would be OK, so at least having some options there would be nice. Though I doubt any of that will make it into this version.

That's actually one of my favorite stories from Three Toe. And not just because I would love to be able to play a scenario like that out with either side (c'mon, that is a pretty epic battle). It's also one of the most satirical commentaries on the typical DF forum poster I have ever read.

... not that I have read very many satirical commentaries on the subject, but you know what I mean.