Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[dwarfed one]

3 : Could a building produce and expel a gas or liquid, for example a
cloud of gunpowder from a gunpowder mill?

Nope.

Pity. Steam puffs from smithy, still or kitchen would be so lovely. The last two also could spread aroma to improve mood of dwarfs. Same for high quality soap in hot water...

By the way, there no way to produce object with certain temperature as result of reaction?
Edited: looks like temperature only could be set for tile, not for item. So, no way.

[Neonivek]

Honestly there's not much in the game that isn't expected to get overhauled or at least improved at some point

Interesting Concept. To the DEVS!

Now I am assuming the current version of 0.28.141.40d is that the 40 refers to the bloats? (maybe not)

So

28 of 100
141 of 600
40 of 400

So of what I can gather the game is around 20% done (I am excluding Powergoals since I have no idea if they are features in it of themselves, series of features, or things Toady would like to happen naturally through the already existing features) of what we know.

So yeah everything.

As many people have said: Dwarf Fortress as it is right now is a skeleton of a skeleton
--------

Also thanks again Toady for answering one of my question. As well as answering everyone elses.

I don't have any questions right now, though I have two suggestions that I need to get into the suggestion section but they are a bit too complicated for me to want to tackle alone.

Of the ones I am willing to admit it was a suggestion on Liquid and Gas characters and how they could function.

[Granite26]

This is as much a modder question as anything else but:

How does quality stack?  In the above mentioned sword blank example, which steps would actually count towards the quality of the sword?  Is there a way to label custom products quality or no-quality?

I think right now, quality is defined by at most 1 element, and item classes either do or don't have quality.

Will it eventually be possible for workshops to provide skill modifiers based on the quality of their building materials?

Basically

How do you plan to support item quality in all this?

[smjjames]

3 : Could a building produce and expel a gas or liquid, for example a
cloud of gunpowder from a gunpowder mill?

Nope.

Pity. Steam puffs from smithy, still or kitchen would be so lovely. The last two also could spread aroma to improve mood of dwarfs. Same for high quality soap in hot water...

By the way, there no way to produce object with certain temperature as result of reaction? For example, an overheated portion of water, what would evaporate immediately. Or some water what will turn into ice.

The butchers shop can emit miasma if refuse isn't gathered quickly enough. That could be considered a gas. Although that is coming from the items and not the workshop specifically

[Armok]

The part about the tokens and creatures and tanning and all that made me wonder, will it be possible to have it filter by tokens similar to [FUEL], [FLUX], [SHARP] (sp? the thing that obsidian is so you can make weapons from it.obsidian), [HARD_MAT](sp?), etc., and ad your own arbitrary ones like that? For example, you could have a type of booze that requires an [RADIOACTIVE] reagent add it to a bunch of radioactive minerals and metals, or perhaps a mirror object that can be made from [REFLECTIVE] materials, and then mark some metals but not others as that, or maybe have some creature produce reflective leather etc.?[/color](just random examples, these specific uses probably wouldn't be all that useful)

[Footkerchief]

Pity. Steam puffs from smithy, still or kitchen would be so lovely. The last two also could spread aroma to improve mood of dwarfs. Same for high quality soap in hot water...

You could perhaps include an extra product in the reaction that immediately boils into vapor -- that would create a puff of "steam" every time a job is finished.  The only way it could affect their moods is by injuring them and making them unhappy, though.

By the way, there no way to produce object with certain temperature as result of reaction?
Edited: looks like temperature only could be set for tile, not for item. So, no way.

You could use a fixed-temperature material for the object, although that might be unsatisfactory depending on what you're trying to achieve.

This is as much a modder question as anything else but:

How does quality stack?  In the above mentioned sword blank example, which steps would actually count towards the quality of the sword?  Is there a way to label custom products quality or no-quality?

I think right now, quality is defined by at most 1 element, and item classes either do or don't have quality.

Will it eventually be possible for workshops to provide skill modifiers based on the quality of their building materials?

Basically

How do you plan to support item quality in all this?

I think this is what Toady meant when he mentioned in the dev log that "There are some things like crafts, decorations and specific statues that couldn't currently be handled" -- crafts are annoying because they have quality markers and those aren't determined in a simple way right now.

The part about the tokens and creatures and tanning and all that made me wonder, will it be possible to have it filter by tokens similar to [FUEL], [FLUX], [SHARP] (sp? the thing that obsidian is so you can make weapons from it.obsidian), [HARD_MAT](sp?), etc., and ad your own arbitrary ones like that? For example, you could have a type of booze that requires an [RADIOACTIVE] reagent add it to a bunch of radioactive minerals and metals, or perhaps a mirror object that can be made from [REFLECTIVE] materials, and then mark some metals but not others as that, or maybe have some creature produce reflective leather etc.?[/color](just random examples, these specific uses probably wouldn't be all that useful)

Yeah, this is exactly the purpose of the reaction classes that Toady explained above.

[smjjames]

Thanks for the linkage back there Toady.

We'll be seeing many specialized workshops now for sure. Most workshops now are generalized, but still specialized for one category. By specialization, I mean made to produce a specific type of good, or even go as far as very specific like beds made only from willow (although this is achievable by only buying willow) or a specific task like only for melting stuff. I could be thinking ahead of myself here though.

[Brown Moses]

I posted this on another forum, quiet day at work:
I've put together a process flow for producing gunpowder based on real life gunpowder production, what's avaliable in DF, and what could be modding it.


Stuff in diamonds are mined/gathered items, stone and wood. Rectangles are buildings, and the hexagons are items that are manufactured.
Items in green would have to be added to the current game.

As it appears you cannot add new orders to existing buildings a new building such as a refinery would be required. 

Sulphur production at the technology level of dwarves would realistically involve one more step for distilling, but considering the amount of steps involved already it might be a bit much.

You could also add barrels or bags as a one of the items required for the final step of gunpowder production, or the production of the refined sulphur and saltpeter. It might be a nice way of making bags more useful.

So producing gunpowder would require the following items:
1 x Sulphur
1 x Saltpeter
2-5 wood depending on whether or not buildings are magma powered.

Those items would produce:
1 x Refined Sulphur
1 x Refined Saltpeter
1 x Charcoal

Which would then be used at the Gunpowder Mill to produce gunpowder.

New items required for the process would be:
Refined Sulphur
Refined Saltpeter

New buildings:
Gunpowder Mill
Refinery

New actions:
Refine Sulphur
Refine Saltpeter
Produce Gunpowder

At this point in time I don't think sparking/non-sparking millstones would be that easy to introduce, as I'd expect they'd need their own flag programmed like magma proof buildings, hopefully that won't ruin anyone's immersion.

So as far as I can see it wouldn't be a massive effort to mod in something like gunpowder production. If you could add ammo and hand cannons to the forge production menu it would save making a new building, but you could probably create a new building to make those items, and have it magma or wood fueled like current forges.

As I believe projectiles are moddable you should be able to simulate the effect of a large round ball of lead hitting a goblin at high speed, which I would guess would be very effective as blowing off limbs and heads.

[Sean Mirrsen]

Well, a gunsmith's shop could well be made to make both guns and bullets. Though the gunpowder would be only a cosmetic addition there, as the "bullet" would remain a simple ball of metal, with no powder in it - composite items are still not implemented. Also, no gunnery skill. Or gunsmithing.

[PTTG??]

I like the idea. Start a thread for that in the Modding Section. There used to be a gunpowder mod, but that died a horrible death.

Anyway, I know that the current workshops are all hardcoded, but does that mean that they are implemented in the .exe itself, floorplan and everything, or does it mean that the floorplans and other basics are in the building raws, with tags like [KITCHEN] or [CRAFTSHOP] or [BUTCHERS_SHOP] or [BED]?

If not, can it be done that way, so that modders could make, for instance, rotations of the jewler's shop that all act the same, but have different floorplans?
Or, perhaps, have Enhanced Stills that have all the still products, plus some custom reactions?

Of course, I don't know if [BED] or [STATUE] or [WELL] tags need to or can be in, but I'm hoping.

Also, I like the idea of steam products. It certainly says something about the player base that they are already figuring out how to tweak the most out of the tools before they even get them.
That might be easier to do if product temperatures where possible to define.

[Footkerchief]

Also, another question I just came up with while writing this - if someone has a compund break, can you target the bone sticking out of the skin with wrestling? Because wow, that wound be insanely disturbing/awesome

We have a power goal for using a compound fracture for something, I think, but right now since it is a tissue and not a body part, it doesn't have special targeting.  Beards also have this problem.  It'll need to be handled later.  Guts that have popped out are a full body part, so they work.

What about the bones that are implemented as body parts, e.g. ribs?  Can those get compound-fractured and then targeted, or just shoved around inside the body?  In general, how are BP-bones treated differently from tissue-bones?  Basically I'm wondering whether we could get targetable compound fractures by modding all the major bones to act as individual body parts rather than tissues.

There are a couple dev log entries that touch on this, but nothing conclusive:

Spoiler: dev log quotes (click to show/hide)

02/11/2009: Today was compound fractures as well as fractured layers being knocked inward to damage soft inner portions. So a bone in the arm for example could break through the skin if the arm is struck by even a blunt weapon, and impacts can also force jagged skull edges into the brain or a broken rib into the heart or a lung (generally, the broken layers can cross body part boundaries according to the wound's path over body part relationships).

08/18/2009: [...] I got to test out the sort of reverse compound fracture thingies where a piece is knocked inward rather than out through the skin. Right now the relationships for the ribs are a little too general, so in the example a left rib goes through the liver (rather than a more appropriate right rib, but that's okay for now. The current text: "You bash The Farmer in the upper body with your bismuth bronze war hammer, bruising the muscle, jamming the left floating rib through the liver tissue and tearing the liver!" There are various issues -- mentioning the bruise is a little weird since it's not that important, the mention of the liver tissue vs the liver tear could be compacted, there are actually two floating ribs on that side and it doesn't go into exactly what happened there, and The Farmer is capitalized (which is an older problem), but it works well enough for now so I'm not going to spend a lot more time on the text. This one also demonstrates the body part relationships nicely though -- the rib was struck first, and it shows a compound-style fracture acting between different parts (rather than just a bone through skin in a single part).

[PermanentInk]

Pity. Steam puffs from smithy, still or kitchen would be so lovely. The last two also could spread aroma to improve mood of dwarfs. Same for high quality soap in hot water...

You could perhaps include an extra product in the reaction that immediately boils into vapor -- that would create a puff of "steam" every time a job is finished.  The only way it could affect their moods is by injuring them and making them unhappy, though.

If there were a product that would act like waterfall mist, that would probably do the trick.  May not have code support right now, though.

[Footkerchief]

If there were a product that would act like waterfall mist, that would probably do the trick.  May not have code support right now, though.

Yeah, water has always been very hardcoded, even more so than the few other materials that are remaining hardcoded.  It's not clear whether reactions will be able to access it, although it would come in handy all over the place.

I would love to use a mod that separates the brewery/winery/etc. from the still, forces you to use water in brewing, and requires pipe sections and fuel at the still.  Oh, and the still should have a 1/100 chance of "exploding" (steam would come in handy there too!).  And the still should be able to use magma instead of fuel.

[Outcast Orange]

Why are all of you in such a hurry to change the era of this game?
This is the swords and crossbows era, not the cannons and rifles era.

I guess it's only fun, but can none of you see Toady's vision?
His world is a timeless place, where dragons and elves run amok,
and the blood of a million goblins stains the battlements of a well armed fortress.
Medieval != Gunpowder/steam

It would be cool though if magma produced steam, and said steam caused discomfort/unhappy thoughts.
Being in close proximity to magma is pretty bad for living things in general, you can be boiled alive.

[PTTG??]

PAGE 100!

WOOOOO LETS HEAR IT FOR ARBITRARY MILESTONES ONLY EXPERIENCED BY THOSE WITH SPECIFIC FORUM SETTINGS.

Anyway, is there a thread for this neo-gunpoweder mod yet?