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[penguinofhonor]

Yeah, this looks awesome although I would like the cave systems to be a little smaller. I still want to have space for an underground ecosystem, but enough space for a fortress as well.

And Toady, you should make use of the DFMA. Way better than giant pngs.

[Neonivek]

I still want to have space for an underground ecosystem, but enough space for a fortress as well.

I don't see where the large underground ecosystem contradicts this. Can't you just dig under it?

[Jurph]

Are those big quasi-circular deposits normal?  I've never noticed them in that pattern before, but in the screenshots it's pretty apparent that you get a single big circular splash of Other_Stone in each tile of your n-by-n embark site, and that you get different ones between layers.  So the upper left corner of my embark site could have MICROCLINE on one layer and ORPIMENT on the next layer down, and then alternating layers of cyan and yellow, with little regard for how a sandwiched cylinder of such godawful colors came to exist.

I like the randomness of the veins, although they seem to run at 45-degree angles with right-angle turns most of the time.

The caves kind of worry me -- I am used to thinking of my fortress as a scary surface layer protected by several reassuringly solid layers of stone. 

[Footkerchief]

Are those big quasi-circular deposits normal?  I've never noticed them in that pattern before, but in the screenshots it's pretty apparent that you get a single big circular splash of Other_Stone in each tile of your n-by-n embark site, and that you get different ones between layers.  So the upper left corner of my embark site could have MICROCLINE on one layer and ORPIMENT on the next layer down, and then alternating layers of cyan and yellow, with little regard for how a sandwiched cylinder of such godawful colors came to exist.

Yeah, that's how the big deposits have always been placed and yeah, it looks terrible.  Hopefully deposits will be made more interesting and unpredictable, but I wouldn't be surprised if that didn't make it into this release, since it's not strictly necessary for the slated underground stuff.

[Mephansteras]

Toady has also stated that the amount of underground stuff will be controllable in the init, so you don't need to worry. These shots are probably on the high end for amount of underground stuff so he can fully test it out.

[Sean Mirrsen]

Toady did add the random aspect to magma pipes, so I guess filling in borders of large round areas isn't much of a technical problem. I think just placing three identical globs of one mineral across three layers, and then reducing the top and bottom ones slightly more than the center one will accomplish the quasi-random 3Dness aspect of cluster placement quite nicely.

[Sowelu]

I do like that the player reaction to finding big jumbles of passages in the stone will probably be "Clear it all out, and construct something better".

[Mel_Vixen]

Looks like we need some pumps and bridges (and aybe ropeladders) to get to some of the goodies.

Also yay for underground ecosystems.

[Volfram]

Looks like we need some pumps and bridges (and aybe ropeladders) to get to some of the goodies.

I consider this a good thing.  It's not a game if there's no challenge, after all.

[Mel_Vixen]

Hey its definitley a good thing. My dad was long years in brown-coal mining so i know about that a bit. I also have seen very much Mines and caves myself and with the new stuff it finally feels like being really underground. And the ecosystem gives an additional nice Fantasy touch without being to unreasonable.

edit:

My Pa was constantly swearing some days if the pumps were of . Would be neat to have slower leaking Auiffers so the the Z-level doesnt flood almost imediatly and the dwarfs could setup floodgates and maybe walls till a Water-hight of 3. And sandbags for bariers (1 bag = 1 waterlevel + very slow leakage?).

Next thing i would like to see would be worldgen/ADV mode Mines tapping in such features.

[Tonto]

The mass connection does raise the question Toady brought up before.  So whenever the next wall of answers comes around - Any ideas on what to do about mass, psychic revelation of the cave's interior?

I am concerned about the same thing. While it's definitely not up to me, I think an ideal situation at this point would be to reveal one Z-level above your explorers and one Z-level below as they reach each new ramp or dig a staircase into a lower level.  After all, it's dark down there. Layers of water could also inhibit revealing, so that an area has to be at least significantly drained before it can be discovered.  Something like that would be great on existing lairs and reclaimed fortresses as well.

This, of course, coming from a non-programmer who knows nothing about how either system works. Whatever Toady comes up with I'm sure will be preferable to the current system.

[GlyphGryph]

Yeah, this looks awesome although I would like the cave systems to be a little smaller. I still want to have space for an underground ecosystem, but enough space for a fortress as well.

I've seen this statement a couple of times now, and I'll be honest - I don't get it in the slightest. I can understand how rivers and magma could totally screw up fortress design, but I don't understand how a cave would. It might take a little bit more time, but I can't see how it would actually change the layout of a cool looking fort. Help?

(My inability to understand this might be due to a tendency to build Helms Deep style fortresses, half inside and half jutting out of the mountain, with fancy walls and turrets. But I dunno, I guess I just don't understand the bias against walls.)

[G-Flex]

Yeah, this looks awesome although I would like the cave systems to be a little smaller. I still want to have space for an underground ecosystem, but enough space for a fortress as well.

I've seen this statement a couple of times now, and I'll be honest - I don't get it in the slightest. I can understand how rivers and magma could totally screw up fortress design, but I don't understand how a cave would. It might take a little bit more time, but I can't see how it would actually change the layout of a cool looking fort. Help?

People will generally prefer natural walls to artificial ones, especially since there are still a lot of in-game distinctions between the two (see: engravings). This all matters more if constructed walls can ever be breached, since then you might end up having a paper-thin wall at one end of the fort separating it from the chasm.

[PMantix]

...but I can't see how it would actually change the layout of a cool looking fort.

A lot of people want a perfectly clean canvas to craft their masterpiece fortress on..  spending hours without unpausing the game just setting up the 'ideal' design from the onset. That type of time investment is all gone to waste if you find a gigantic open cavity where you wanted to put the masterful bedroom suites. Yeah, you can patch trouble areas with walls and floors, but I can see how it could be annoying for that type of player.

As many others have suggested, an init option and/or worldgen searches for features you do/do not specifically want is the best solution to make as many people happy as possible.

..

Personally, while I can see the fun in building that perfect fort exactly the way you want, I think it is more challenging and realistic to build that perfect fort around the available landscape..  just like real dorfs and gobos have to.

[umiman]

Building perfect forts? That's what the sky exists for.