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Author Topic: [MATRIACHY] [PATRIARCHY]  (Read 5816 times)

Hague

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[MATRIACHY] [PATRIARCHY]
« on: April 12, 2008, 06:45:00 pm »

These entity tokens would specify whether or not a civilization will have males or females as both civilization and site leaders. This might also apply to the priests of that entity's religion as well. While this is relatively cosmetic, it would be a nice touch to add to the depth of entities.
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Capntastic

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Re: [MATRIACHY] [PATRIARCHY]
« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2008, 07:11:00 pm »

Maybe in the future, but right now it seems that for the most part, ruling positions are non-gender biased.   Save for Kings, I think.
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Footkerchief

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Re: [MATRIACHY] [PATRIARCHY]
« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2008, 11:23:00 pm »

quote:
Originally posted by Capntastic:
<STRONG>Maybe in the future, but right now it seems that for the most part, ruling positions are non-gender biased.   Save for Kings, I think.</STRONG>

King is just a gender-specific name.  You get Queens too (accompanied by a King Consort)

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Xombie

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Re: [MATRIACHY] [PATRIARCHY]
« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2008, 11:59:00 pm »

Actually there is no any means of patriarchy or martiarchy in DF and nowhere to apply it, because of no difference between genders, so this tag will be pointless and feministic propaganda.

DF is a fantasy and maybe it doesn't matter, but [MATRIACHY] never existed anywhere in history, only in fiction stories.

Also having a queen instead of king has nothing to do with matriarchy or patriarchy.

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Draco18s

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Re: [MATRIACHY] [PATRIARCHY]
« Reply #4 on: April 13, 2008, 12:38:00 am »

quote:
Originally posted by Xombie:
<STRONG>DF is a fantasy and maybe it doesn't matter, but [MATRIACHY] never existed anywhere in history, only in fiction stories.</STRONG>

That is, unfortunately, a blatent lie.

   * The Bunts community in Mangalore and Udupi (South India) historically follow a matrilineal system. This system was common to many communities in coastal Karnataka and Kerala. It was called Aliya-Sanatana and as well Aliya Kattu. The Gotras or bari were passed from mother to children. In Aliya-Santana, inheritance is passed through the matrilineal family. The brother managed the land on behalf of his sister. His sister's son in turn would inherit the management of the matrilineal family land. There are many Bunt households, each with their own name. In addition, each matrilineal household had a surname associated with it, and the children would take their matrilineal family surname. Traditionally, a Bunt would put the name of his matrilineal household in front of his name and his matrilineal surname at the end.
   * The traditional Nair community in Kerala, South India fits the new definition of 'matrifocality'. (Nowadays this system is rarely practiced. The members of the Nair community now live in nuclear families). A traditional Nair matrifocal family is called a Tarawad or Marumakkathayam family. A traditional Nair Tarawad consists of a mother and her children living together with their mother's eldest surviving brother or the eldest surviving maternal uncle, who is called Karanavan. The Karnavan exercises full powers over the affairs of the family. Until recently, the main significance of this system was that the heirs to the property were the women in the family and the men were only allowed to enjoy the benefits during their lifetime, not being able to pass any property as a posession. The naming system of the Nair community had the prefix of their mother's 'family name' and they adopted the maternal uncle’s surname. The Marumakkathayam system of Kerala was a legal right which determined inheritance through the female line. Thus if a family property was to be partitioned all female members would receive one share and all male members who were their direct offspring would receive one share. Thus a brother might receive only one share while his sister and her children (and grandchildren by her daughters) would each receive a share. This traditional right was removed by the Kerala Joint Hindu Family System (Abolition) Act, 1975.
   * Mosuo people - Lugu Lake, bordering between Yunnan and Sichuan province, China
   * The people of Western Sahara (the former Spanish Sahara), occupied by Morocco retain semi-matriarchal customs [1]. See also Polisario Front
   * The people of the Bolama archipelago in Guinea-Bissau[2]
   * Guajiro tribes - inhabiting the Guajira Department in Colombia and the adjacent region in the Caribbean coast in Venezuela, South America, whose children are raised not by their father, but by their mother's brother (avunculism)

The cultures encountered in the New World often were misunderstood and destroyed before being documented. The Dutch explorers of New Netherlands failed to negotiate for the lands they desired in what is now New Jersey because they insisted in discussions with the men, when women were the property holders who controlled where the people would reside in a seasonally changing use of several sites.

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Sean Mirrsen

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Re: [MATRIACHY] [PATRIARCHY]
« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2008, 01:40:00 am »

That, and an antman civ wouldn't be the same with a King. I know they're all marked as female anyways, but that's a rather hacky way of solving it, and is the opposite of what it would actually be.
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Hague

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Re: [MATRIACHY] [PATRIARCHY]
« Reply #6 on: April 13, 2008, 10:35:00 am »

Well, the basic idea was to allow for flavor to player-made civilizations. There isn't supposed to be a dramatic game mechanic effect. It's a bloat, but I don't feel it's an unreasonable one. No more unreasonable than any of the other bloats already listed.
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Torak

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Re: [MATRIACHY] [PATRIARCHY]
« Reply #7 on: April 13, 2008, 10:48:00 am »

quote:
Originally posted by Xombie:
<STRONG>Actually there is no any means of patriarchy or martiarchy in DF and nowhere to apply it, because of no difference between genders, so this tag will be pointless and feministic propaganda.

DF is a fantasy and maybe it doesn't matter, but [MATRIACHY] never existed anywhere in history, only in fiction stories.

Also having a queen instead of king has nothing to do with matriarchy or patriarchy.</STRONG>


I honestly cant tell if you're blazingly stupid or just acting ignorant.

[ April 13, 2008: Message edited by: Torak ]

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Mikademus

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Re: [MATRIACHY] [PATRIARCHY]
« Reply #8 on: April 13, 2008, 11:06:00 am »

quote:
Originally posted by Xombie:
<STRONG>DF is a fantasy and maybe it doesn't matter, but [MATRIACHY] never existed anywhere in history, only in fiction stories.</STRONG>

Posts like this is why I read fora, thanks for the entertainment!  :D
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brainfire

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Re: [MATRIACHY] [PATRIARCHY]
« Reply #9 on: April 13, 2008, 11:07:00 am »

quote:
Originally posted by Sean Mirrsen:
<STRONG>That, and an antman civ wouldn't be the same with a King. I know they're all marked as female anyways, but that's a rather hacky way of solving it, and is the opposite of what it would actually be.</STRONG>

Ants are all female, aside from the few males that do nothing except eat and breed. So, it's a hack, but it's pretty close to how one would expect an ant-like species to work.

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Re: [MATRIACHY] [PATRIARCHY]
« Reply #10 on: April 13, 2008, 12:12:00 pm »

Guys, he's right! Nowhere in the world do we have a [MATRIARCHY] tag...
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Dae

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Re: [MATRIACHY] [PATRIARCHY]
« Reply #11 on: April 13, 2008, 02:08:00 pm »

At the moment no (though I'm not sure).
But there definitely WAS some civilisations in that case.

So why not.
The best would still be to let civs decide whether  they are matriarchal, patriarchal, if the power must go to the eldest son/daughter/child or to the youngest, or if they chose the strongest warrior.
I mean as time goes by.
Also, some coup d'Etat would be nice. But I'm digressing.
So yeah, a [MATRIARCHAL] tag would be nice for modding.

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PTTG??

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Re: [MATRIACHY] [PATRIARCHY]
« Reply #12 on: April 13, 2008, 02:30:00 pm »

Let's not forget also that this can have another useful effect; in most societies, over a large variety of earth's cultures, rulership is often passed on in the same way names are. In Patriarchal societies, the family is named after the father and the sons are applicable heirs. It would be awesome to see family names passed down from the first generation, and from father to son or mother to daughter depending on the culture.
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Align

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Re: [MATRIACHY] [PATRIARCHY]
« Reply #13 on: April 13, 2008, 05:11:00 pm »

quote:
Originally posted by Dae:
<STRONG>At the moment no (though I'm not sure).
But there definitely WAS some civilisations in that case.</STRONG>
Whoosh.
Well, I guess it was a lame joke anyway, so no loss...
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Xombie

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Re: [MATRIACHY] [PATRIARCHY]
« Reply #14 on: April 14, 2008, 01:59:00 am »

quote:
Originally posted by Draco18s:
<STRONG>

That is, unfortunately, a blatent lie.

   * The Bunts community in Mangalore and Udupi (South India) historically follow a matrilineal system... blah-blah...</STRONG>


That is, unfortunately, a retarded ignorance.

Matrilineal system has nothing to do with matriarchy. It's just a way to gain family name. And it have a reason - most times you can't exactly say who is father(no DNA analysis in ancient India). But it's always obvious who mother is.

If government, kings or elders is females it's not matriarchy too. If UK has a queen that don't mean UK = martiarchy.


Name me some ancient civilisation where:
-Wives do feed and protect housebands while they are sitting at home(pregnant he-he).
-Females are Military and Hunters(and males are not or less likely to be).
-Wife is head of a family.
All three should match.
That's would be pure matriarchy.
And note such civilisation will have to compete with patriarchic ones(and loose).

Even in your example those matriarchic tribes wasn't civilisations. If some willage declares matriarchy or say "UFOcentrism" - that's mean nothing really. And in your examples martiarchic communities were [misunderstood(?) and] destroyed because of a low effectivity. Not because of a "misunderstood". If society is strong enough - nobody can misunderstand and destroy it. That's why martiarchy(even partial as in your exapmles) is obsolete and unused.


But for DF this civilisation tag useless for other reason - no difference between them and the game don't even simulate things like patriarchy. Genders is equal in DF and no need to change it.

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