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[SirHoneyBadger]

I don't understand why anyone would want to exist solely on meat, or solely without. They taste better together, in a nice stirfry perhaps.

As far as morality goes, plants are fairly closely related to animals, genetically, so whether you live on acorns and dandelions, or you eat chilled monkeybrains for dessert every night, you're still destroying a living thing to perpetuate your own existence.

Atleast an animal has half a chance to avoid their fate. Plants can't even run away. 

At the same time, though, when you eat, you're also preserving and bettering your own life, and what's wrong with that?

Humans might not be the single best thing that ever happened to the planet's ecosystem, but we're sentient beings. We create a lot of cool things, and think a lot of cool thoughts, and if any species on Earth has a shot at turning a dead world, like Mars, into a green paradise, it's us.

Cows aint gonna do it. Dolphins aint gonna do it. We just might.

Humans are awesome. We eat animals because we kicked all of their asses, even though we're the weakest, slowest, blindest, and deafest creatures on Earth. We clawed our way to the top of the foodchain, and it took us a couple million years to do it, and now we can celebrate that victory with a nice juicy steak.

The fact that we even care about, and have conversations about, where that steak came from just proves how awesome we are.

[Splendiferous]

 you eat chilled monkeybrains for dessert every night



The fact that we even care about, and have conversations about, where that steak came from just proves how awesome we are.

that is so offensive.

[Foa]

 you eat chilled monkeybrains for dessert every night



The fact that we even care about, and have conversations about, where that steak came from just proves how awesome we are.

that is so offensive.

I get it now.

[LegoLord]

Atleast an animal has half a chance to avoid their fate. Plants can't even run away. 

I might put this in my sig.

That said, we are also reliant on cows for our continued existence, which means we must preserve the existence of cows as a species, which is all animals really want when you get right down to it.  So really I think cows are happy with us eating them.

[Foa]

Fucking PETA, they now how to do things, since passion > thought, they just have to get you emotionally, and it is easy.

[SirHoneyBadger]

It was, admittedly, meant to be a shocker. A worst case scenario, if you will, born of the unholy marriage of Spielberg and Lucas... I appologise for any aspersions that might unwillingly have slipped their bonds.

Damn you, Harrison Ford!
Tom Selleck would have never stood for this travesty!

I, for one, love my monkey brothers and sisters. I'm proud of my monkey heritage and I would never eat monkey meat.

My great great great...great great great really great-
grandfather was a monkey's uncle.

[Splendiferous]

It was, admittedly, meant to be a shocker. A worst case scenario, if you will, born of the unholy marriage of Spielberg and Lucas... I appologise for any aspersions that might unwillingly have slipped their bonds.

Damn you, Harrison Ford!
Tom Selleck would have never stood for this travesty!

I, for one, love my monkey brothers and sisters. I'm proud of my monkey heritage and I would never eat monkey meat.

My great great great...great great great really great-
grandfather was a monkey's uncle.

I want you to leave this thread right now.

[Jackrabbit]

I would totally eat sea kitten sticks. Sounds divine.

by the way, the theory of evolution is not that we evolved from monkeys but from a similar species to monkeys. Our genetic tree branched away and now we can drive cars. In your face you stupid primates! What do you use your opposable thumbs for, huh? Can you hail a taxi? well, yes, albeit probably by accident, but can you build a taxi?

Checkmate.
Mwa ha ha.

[Foa]

I would totally eat sea kitten sticks. Sounds divine.

by the way, the theory of evolution is not that we evolved from monkeys but from a similar species to monkeys. Our genetic tree branched away and now we can drive cars. In your face you stupid primates! What do you use your opposable thumbs for, huh? Can you hail a taxi? well, yes, albeit probably by accident, but can you build a taxi?

Checkmate.
Mwa ha ha.

I'd still call them fish sticks.

[Splendiferous]

I would totally eat sea kitten sticks. Sounds divine.

by the way, the theory of evolution is not that we evolved from monkeys but from a similar species to monkeys. Our genetic tree branched away and now we can drive cars. In your face you stupid primates! What do you use your opposable thumbs for, huh? Can you hail a taxi? well, yes, albeit probably by accident, but can you build a taxi?

Checkmate.
Mwa ha ha.

*Readies his trusty Colt .45*
just check, motherfucker.

*blam*

[chaoticag]

Yes, DDT is not terribly good for people and yes biomagnification is a real phenomenon. However, as per the article it's not as big of a problem as we once thought it would be, especially in land animals and we've already banned the use of DDT in agriculture.

You are going to have to do better then that to convince me that

You cannot pull off eating only meat while being healthy nowadays, too much pesticides end up in meat for it to be completely healthy.

Also Chandrasekhar answered your earlier comment about people starving vs feeding cows pretty well. Blaming people who eat meat for using up vegetables that would otherwise have fed starving children is a little naive.

I'd like to reply to that by saying that 50% of India is currently malnourished, and I doubt that there is intense rebel fighting and two bit dictators there. I'm not quite too sure about Ethiopia's leaders, but as I have stated, they were producing their own edible food and exporting it (to meat industries) while they were starving due to a drought, not war. The economic incentive is too great for them, but the companies involved should at least have the decency to refuse.

Granted, the world produces enough food to feed the world, and distribution is the problem, but cases where perfectly good countries, but the meat industry is a huge drain on food resources as only 10% of the energy taken by them is ever given back; this is ignoring the fact that we also waste a lot of water and energy over the lifetime of a cow to the point where not eating beef is more eco-friendly than not driving cars around.

[Thndr]

Granted, the world produces enough food to feed the world, and distribution is the problem, but cases where perfectly good countries, but the meat industry is a huge drain on food resources as only 10% of the energy taken by them is ever given back; this is ignoring the fact that we also waste a lot of water and energy over the lifetime of a cow to the point where not eating beef is more eco-friendly than not driving cars around.

Unless we make the cars run on cowpoop

[Chandrasekhar]

I'd like to reply to that by saying that 50% of India is currently malnourished, and I doubt that there is intense rebel fighting and two bit dictators there. I'm not quite too sure about Ethiopia's leaders, but as I have stated, they were producing their own edible food and exporting it (to meat industries) while they were starving due to a drought, not war. The economic incentive is too great for them, but the companies involved should at least have the decency to refuse.

India is ranked 120^th on the World Bank's Ease of Doing Business Index, well behind, for example, Pakistan, China, and Ethiopia.  It's one of the most corrupt nations in the world.  Sure, the extremist attacks last November that killed or injured several hundred people weren't precisely rebel actions, and though one fifth of the elected parliament members are currently facing criminal charges, they can't be called dicators, but if you're going to say that the main cause of starvation isn't politics, you could probably pick a better country to make your point.

As to Ethiopia, the famine was a direct result of rebel activity - there have been worse droughts in the region that didn't result in the country practically imploding on itself.  The farms that weren't destroyed were confiscated by either the rebels or the "legitimate" government, and the food that wasn't given to the fighters may have been traded away, yes, but that's only because it had been stolen by force from the farmers in the first place.  You can't compare that to a free business transaction.  I know it's fashionable to blame the horrible horrible corporations for buying what is sold to them, but maybe you should take a closer look at the tyrants that stole the food in the first place, or even the protectionist policies of the first world nations, if you like.

Granted, the world produces enough food to feed the world, and distribution is the problem, but cases where perfectly good countries, but the meat industry is a huge drain on food resources as only 10% of the energy taken by them is ever given back; this is ignoring the fact that we also waste a lot of water and energy over the lifetime of a cow to the point where not eating beef is more eco-friendly than not driving cars around.

What does wasting water and energy have to do with saving the planet?  We have plenty of water, as long as we don't mind building desalinization plants to draw it from the oceans.  We have plenty of energy - the sun, the wind, natural gas, clean coal, nuclear power, geothermal power, or whatever you prefer, it's just a matter of building the necessary infrastructure.  If anything is killing our environment, it's the political instability and lack of technological access in the developing world that forces them to use the clearly environmentally unsound alternatives that we've already moved past.  Compared to that, the impact of a few cows is absolutely negligible.

[bjlong]

Really, what needs to happen is that all of the developing countries need to skip their moody adolescence, make up with themselves or break up peacefully, and kick out any corrupt politicians. Then all the countries of the world need to have all the citizens become peaceful, educated citizens, earnestly looking for a better world without name calling, with the leaders unanimously chosen by a peaceful process to be the brightest, best, and most moral of the citizens, and then we can get some real good done around the world.

To summarize the summary of the summary: People are the problem.

Also: The argument that as you move up the food chain you get diminishing returns is flawed at best. Meat and feed give different nutrients; what is acceptable food for cows is usually not acceptable for humans; and most agricultural organizations accept that giving meat to those without it is a huge boost in standard of living.

Really, vegetarianism and veganism seem to only be healthy in well-developed countries among the urbane, from what I've seen. This would explain many correlations such as vegetarians living longer, as they have more access to medical care. It also makes sense from a pragmatic standpoint--if you're not able to choose your food, you can't worry about alternative ways of getting protein.

I'm not trying to put down vegetarianism--like all meal choices, it doesn't matter to me. It all ends up in the sewers, anyway. Just understand that what is healthy in some circumstances is not healthy in all circumstances, or among all body types, etc.

Feel-good moral: Everyone should find what works for them, and then embrace it with love and rainbows and sunshine.

Now back to slaughtering kittens. 

[Chandrasekhar]

Really, what needs to happen is that all of the developing countries need to skip their moody adolescence, make up with themselves or break up peacefully, and kick out any corrupt politicians. Then all the countries of the world need to have all the citizens become peaceful, educated citizens, earnestly looking for a better world without name calling, with the leaders unanimously chosen by a peaceful process to be the brightest, best, and most moral of the citizens, and then we can get some real good done around the world.

That was the plan with Iraq, right?  I agree with the principle, but our technique could use some work.