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[woose1]

that's a whale.

Yayyyyyyy.... claps for Barbarossa!
Wait.
That is a whale!

[Randominality]

that's a whale.

Yayyyyyyy.... claps for Barbarossa!
Wait.
That is a whale!

yeh but same sort of idea

[SirHoneyBadger]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bermuda_Depths

Just thought I'd add this to the mix.

[Splendiferous]

that actually raises and interesting concept: what if there were more than just
big turtles roaming the land? we could have whales and bisons and gargantuan eagles carrying the ever adaptable Dwarves to the edges of the the world! there could be all manner of colossal earthen beasts to provide lodging and refuge for Dwarven kind. They would, of course largely be limited to animals that are already thought of as bulky and lumbering, or "earthen" as it were. But think of the possibility! think of the depth! I think I might cry.

a shiny new penny to the man (or woman) who convinces Toady to insert the noble genus Gigantus Animalia into the game! (with an option to turn them "off" in the init.txt)

[SirHoneyBadger]

What of giant beasts as gods? Or something vaguely godlike, like the 12 animal guardians in the Dark Tower series.

If anyone's familiar enough with that series to get the references (both the above one, and the below one), which wouldn't really surprise me.

I might be in the minority here-and not to bring up something that falls under the magic arc-but I'm attracted to the idea of "technological magic" (not magic as science, but magic that replicates/duplicates more classic scientific output, like golems as opposed to robots, for instance, and requires a similar "engineering" sensibility. Or at the very least, magic and science being indistinguishable), and this is reinforced by DF being a game that's centered around mythological beings who are, nonetheless, technologically attached and advanced.

[ZeroGravitas]

That is what happened when I read that suggestion.  It is so great my mind couldn't handle it.

this is what happened to my brain when i read this thread.

not in a good way.

[Splendiferous]

yeah, you're cool.

[Foa]

yeah, you're cool.

Way cooler than duncan.

[Silverionmox]

I might be in the minority here-and not to bring up something that falls under the magic arc-but I'm attracted to the idea of "technological magic" (not magic as science, but magic that replicates/duplicates more classic scientific output, like golems as opposed to robots, for instance, and requires a similar "engineering" sensibility. Or at the very least, magic and science being indistinguishable), and this is reinforced by DF being a game that's centered around mythological beings who are, nonetheless, technologically attached and advanced.

The giant pitfall with that is that we would just be emulating science as we know it, which is bad for a fantasy game.

The golem, by the way, didn't require much engineering: it was a clay statue, brought to life by putting the name of god on its forehead.

[SirHoneyBadger]

Well, the traditional version didn't, but I'm referring to the golem as an automaton, rather than it's root source in Jewish mysticism.

And what I mean is extrapolation, rather than emulation. So that when a dwarf makes a "magical" sword, it can be understood that the blade, atleast partly, benefits from advanced metallurgy and forging techniques that we might understand today, and that other things the dwarf did, we might call supernatural.

And even the "supernatural" aspects could perhaps be, themselves, understood (partly, if not wholely) in scientific terms. Just not a "science" that we humans use, or fully comprehend.

[Silverionmox]

I understand, but too often that results in things like 'lead blocks magical rays' kind of things. That's SF without the advancements in science, and not really what I'm looking for in a fantasy world.

[alfie275]

Maybe giant animals occour near large quantities of pitchblende?

[Silverionmox]

That's the kind of scientific reasoning (radioactivity causes mutations, uranium is radioactive, pitchblende contains uranium: therefore animals near pitchblende get macromutations) that I think we'd better take care to avoid. It's a valid way to structure a universe, and I'd love to see a game that consistently applies that theme. But this is mythical fantasy, not Victorian or fifties horror SF.

A fitting way to get that kind of effect in the game would be to form an association between a god of growth and pitchblende: things around pitchblende could then grow (slighty) faster, and (slightly) larger than their ordinary counterparts (much like Pippin and Merry ended up larger than the other halflings, because of their stay with Treebeard and his Ent-style drinks. If anything is associated with growing large and sturdy, it's trees.) Mind you, that probably should be randomized from game to game, and it might as well be orthoclase, stibnite, the colour yellow or dancing in the moonlight that makes creatures grow. At all times, it should be congruent with the symbolism that is used in that world (but not necessarily our world). To balance stuff,

AFA gigantic turtles etc. are concerned, they are mobile in principle, so they're not really limited to exist near a certain mineral. We could assume that they sleep for very long times, so they don't need to sleep nearby where a food source is right now - they might have been sleeping for a few thousand years.. That way, the only limit on their occurrence might be game balance, or the player's sanity [PLACEGIGTURTLES=6513].

[Cheshire Cat]

wouldnt pitchblende be associated with a god of corruption? last i checked it wasnt exactly a nice natural elf friendly growth promotion agent. i cant exactly see people seeding their garden with the stuff to get bigger vegetables.

fiction surrounding that sort of thing demands that instead of extra large coach sized pumpkins you end up with festering oozing carnivorous plants of doom.

i dont think giant turtles or really giant anything springing from radiation exposure is that good an idea for a fantasy based game like DF, it would be emulating the 50s giant pissed of insect line, which is pretty far from the medievil setting we are dealing with. still doesnt mean you cant have odd glowing plants and strange magical type things happening around radioactive ores, just so long as it stays original and true to DF, without the giant monster shadow of the cold war nuclear age theme.

[SirHoneyBadger]

I've actually seen mention by the Devs of "magic so powerful that it would be equivalent to-or even worse than-an atom bomb.".

If noone else has seen it, I'll try to track it down tomorrow, or something. I'm too tired to bother with it tonight.