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Author Topic: [MOD] DFCP [v.B2] 40d13 FULL  (Read 35279 times)

Deon

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Note that I am russian myself so this "cliche" is not based on my egocentric matter.

I see your point and I guess I was just not too creative when I selected civ names. I just went the easy way (and easily distinguishable by others... Let's say, if you see "nippon", you know what are you going to see).

I must say here, why elf then? Why not akjominalffar or something? Because elf/dwarf are real names (well, from the real folkloire I mean) so the idea of totally unique racial names becomes a bit obsolete by this fact.

I still don't like "humans" for european-type civ, I thought it's somewhat wrong in relation to other cultures... So I don't want to remove "norse", I just like it and it makes as much sense as "dwarf" (well, why not "nibelung"? :D), I am free to rename all the races though if you can find a nice name. I will consider coming up with the namesm thank you for the rant. I just didn't give it such attention as you did, I tried to differ races more than to come up with some more appropriate names.

By the way, this "rant" is the thing I needed. I mean, really, it's nice when people ask to add something new or praise your work, but it's even better when people give you constructive critisism, thus giving a space to develop things further.
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SirHoneyBadger

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I'm writing in support of your modding, Deon (although I can't test anything, sorry, and any feedback would be purely speculative).

As far as naming goes, maybe you could draw additional names from mythology? Norse mythology alone has all kinds of easily applied names, that little is really known about.

The Dis, the Skraelings, the sons of Mimir, etc. could all be applied to different cultures, or even species.
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Deon

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Well, for now I am considering what to do with norse and "human" :).

1) Two options for the nordic race: a) call them Nords, it's a fictional race in Elder Scroll though so I am not sure; 2) what about Nybling
2) propose names for euro civ please.

Also I need another name. I'm adding a mid-eastern civ which should settle in dry plains and desert and I have 2 variants: avars or huns. How is it?
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SirHoneyBadger

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You could call them 'Jann' (as in the djinn subtype), and then build a culture for them.
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Rochndil

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I just have to muddy the waters here a bit.

I do understand the point of Solifuge's rant, and in many ways he is correct. However, it misses the mark on something of importance.

[RANT]
Stereotypes are limiting. They compartmentalize things, cutting off their differences and mangling them until they fit into the box. This principle applies to cultures, people, music, fiction, art, etc.

However, there's a reason that stereotypes are used so universally - they make people more comfortable with information. One of the key tenets of learning theory is the concept of "schema" - new information is best learned if it can be related to EXISTING information. This process is normal and comfortable to people, and applies to gaming as well as any other activity.

Yes, you can create a totally unique world, with its own unique cultures, languages, technology, etc, etc. And, if your players are patient and determined enough, they may eventually come to learn, understand, and properly appreciate this new world. BUT, the road is both harder and longer, and in the process you're quite likely to turn away more than a few folks who won't have the patience/memory capacity/curiosity to learn all that new material, without existing references, just to enjoy a game.

That's why so many games USE the stereotypes. They make people comfortable. They give them a place to start. They help them feel knowledgeable (and therefore powerful). If you start with the sterotypical situation, and then give it a twist, the DIFFERENCE really catches attention too. For example, "Elves, love trees, love nature, yadda, yadda, CARNIVORES?!? What?" Immediately, the viewer is interested and involved. Without the background and assumptions of the stereotype, that little hook would be pretty meaningless.

Is it accurate, for example, to lump the Tibetans in with the Chinese? Of course not, their cultures are radically different, and currently in major conflict. But by creating a generic "Asian" culture, in game terms, it at least gives the player a starting template that can be filled in as the game progresses. Mixing elements of the familiar and alien is far more effective than just dumping new ideas on the side of the road.

My personal opinion is that DF is already a pretty marginal-interest game, awesome as it is, when held up against the average gamer. It there doesn't make a lot of sense to further alienate the few brave souls willing to try it.
[/RANT]

This is, of course, my (relatively educated) personal opinion. This does not in any way diminish the opinions of any other person, as all are valid. Only by listening to the ideas of others do we learn, and grow.

Keep up the good work Deon, and follow your own muse!

Rochndil, who actually got some work done last night, yay...
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Deon

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Thanks. You've managed to tell my point of view in a good way for understanding, better than I could tell (due to me being a non-native english speaker and also being lazy to express my thoughts in details). I personally didn't think about it a lot but I think I've avoided "alien" names for the same reason: I want people to feel comfortable, I want them to see "humans" not some alien race.

So I think I will convert norse to Nords, leave Nippon as they are, and mid-eastern civ is going to have a name like al'harab or ahrab.

I was browsing the web trying to find a solution for this problem and occasionally stumbled upon Warhammer universe. Hey, they have Nippon and Araby too... Great, I guess it's inevitable :D.

Anyway I will try to prepare more weaponry and stuff for the next release, to make the gameplay to be a primary issue and the naming problems to be a secondary issue :). However I still feel like I am going to rename harpy queens to harpy hags.
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Solifuge

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I'll brainstorm for a bit on this, if you'd like, but for now here are a few places to look for inspirations for other Human cultural groups:

Mesoamericans: The indigenous people of Mexico and northern South America, such as the Inca, Maya, Olmec, etc. They had rich cultures with keen mathematical and astrological knowledge, revered the Jaguar as a force of nature, and later on practiced willing human sacrifice. They had great architectural and artistic skills, and Olmec sculpture is considered by some schools to have been superior to that of the Greeks. Oh, and they used blowguns. Poison Dart Traps anyone? (Indigenous peoples of Central America)

Africans: Again, there are a myriad of cultures to draw on, but Egypt is perhaps the most notable example. Advanced agricultural skills, arse-kicking architecture, scimitars, and an interesting pantheon blending elements of humans and animals. There are tons of other cultures to draw upon in Africa as well, such as that of the Zulu, etc.(Indigenous peoples of Africa)



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SirHoneyBadger

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Ethiopian (Aksum) culture is very interesting, too, and extremely old.

Ethiopia, infact, is actually considered to be the place where all humans originally came from.

The Ashanti are another very interesting Nation, and they still continue to exist and prosper as a people, today.

They're famous for their weaving skills-among other things-which are extraordinary.
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Deon

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For now I've avoided mesoamerican culture because I want to develop lizardmen in a nice gold-obeying mesoamerican-like civ. They die off already too fast, they just won't survive (both) if they will compete :). Let some fantasy races to have a place to expand :).
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SirHoneyBadger

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It might be interesting to apply a generic MesoAmerican culture-vibe to the Antmen...
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LegoLord

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Dwarves or humans as the Incas is something I can see working well (as opposed to [Y]-men).  The Incas had the location and technology to freeze-dry food.
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"Oh look there is a dragon my clothes might burn let me take them off and only wear steel plate."
And this is how tinned food was invented.
Alternately: The Brick Testament. It's a really fun look at what the bible would look like if interpreted literally. With Legos.
Just so I remember

ThtblovesDF

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Where did you hide the "make gigantic cork screw" command?
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SirHoneyBadger

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Dwarves or humans as the Incas is something I can see working well (as opposed to [Y]-men).  The Incas had the location and technology to freeze-dry food.

The surreality of this post deserves accolade.  8)

The problem about dwarfs or humans being Incas is that they're already relatively fleshed out. Humans in the game, if anything, have the problem of not being generic enough, while dwarf culture is pretty much the driving force behind the game and this Forum.

The various "[Y]-men" in the game are far more problematic. I personally can barely begin to understand the ants' nests on my own property (It doesn't help that I'm hostile towards them--more hostile than is really reasonable, at that.), let alone fathom the culture of doberman-sized, civilization-building, sentient, ant-MEN.

Putting a "bit like the Inca" tag on them would almost be a relief. Not that I know a whole lot about the Inca, mind you...except that they apparently had the ability to freeze-dry their food...I believe they also freeze-dried their people too, didn't they? Inca "mummies" rings a bell.

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Deon

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Where did you hide the "make gigantic cork screw" command?
Does it mean there's no such option?
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IndonesiaWarMinister

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Hmm...
I have trouble making Nords and Nippon appear in my worlds.

Do they need Medium ++ worlds?
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