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[perilisk]

I wanted no quality levels simply because it'd drive me mad to have to throw my no quality decades old ledger into the magma pipe and replace it with a fancy one later out of sheer perfectionism, that thing is historical.

The information is historical, but you could always make a copy in a higher quality book, if scribing was implemented. Pre-printing-press, it would be a fairly important skill.

[Hectonkhyres]

So would a book have two different quality modifiers; the quality of the book and the quality of the words written inside it? Because I have an easy time imagining a grand tome with pages of giant cave spider silk and a bindings of platinum and gems having the dwarven equivalent of bad Sailor Moon fanfics written in it.

[Tormy]

So would a book have two different quality modifiers; the quality of the book and the quality of the words written inside it?

What would be the point in something like that? 
Anyway, Toady has posted some infos about books in the library topic.

[Rhenaya]

Having books relating to the legends and so on has been on the table since Armok I, and it's definitely going in over time.  The legends screen is the infant version of this.  I remember hitting that vellum page a while ago -- I also wanted to do leather tawing.  The books bound with white tawed leather seemed creepy to me.  I don't know if tawing is similar to making vellum (soaking inlime?), since tawing makes use of alum.  Alum seems useful in various ways too (as a mordant for example).

so part 1 of my suggestion will definitly come :p

[Huey]

I don't see why dwarves, or any other race capable of reading and learning for that matter, wouldn't be able to improve themselves by reading a book of some sort.

Personally, I think that it should only raise their skill from non-existent to novice, thereby skipping dabbling entirely. I know that I have learned quite a bit from books, but it certainly didn't make me a rocket surgeon.

As for the rest of it, I like the idea of libraries and scribes and such. The bookkeeper needing a certain number of scrolls, tablets, etc, to keep the records straight makes sense, but I have visualized it as being part of the office that was built for the job - kind of like how carpenters and masons et al. don't need tools, they are just assumed to be part of the building.

Just my two dwarfbucks, now I may go try and finish reading the UD thread hehehe

[Pilsu]

The information is historical, but you could always make a copy in a higher quality book, if scribing was implemented. Pre-printing-press, it would be a fairly important skill.

You don't see the Americans making a fresh copy of their declaration of independence just because it's a little worn and deserves better 

[Granite26]

The information is historical, but you could always make a copy in a higher quality book, if scribing was implemented. Pre-printing-press, it would be a fairly important skill.

You don't see the Americans making a fresh copy of their declaration of independence just because it's a little worn and deserves better 

Yes, but making illuminated copies of the bible was a full time occupation for many monks in the middle ages...

[Rhenaya]

well i think a novice writer dwarf will more likley write short story of a few pages like students, a competent writer dwarf will write some nice story. and a legandary writer will write some story like one of the lotr books :p


and with unlimited dwarfs in unlimited time you will get a real copy of all the books in all the libarys, even if they just randomly put letters together ^^

[madrain]

a legandary writer will write some story like one of the lotr books :p

MY BRAIN JUST BROKE

[Tormy]

and a legandary writer will write some story like one of the lotr books :p

That's impossible! I mean that Tolkien's work is absolutely epic, you cannot compare it to other, decent writings at all, but yeah I am subjective..

[madrain]

Tormy is trying to kill me!

I only pointed out paper use in books and scrolls as related to magic because that's a common fantasy trope.  I prefer my magic users to be shamanistic in style.

The rarity of books in the medieval world is why I am against using them as a skill-up potion.  Before the Italian renaissance there were very few self-help books.  I'd hate to see a "Mining for Dummies" be implemented in DF.

I'm all for other uses of books, though.  Particularly in bookkeeping.  :p

[bjlong]

There are examples of books with pictures that illustrated how to fight within the required period, and since a lot of medieval manuscripts were burnt/used for backing/otherwise trashed, I'd be willing to bet that there were manuscripts that covered some parts of learning skills.

I definitely would recommend that these aren't skill-up potions. It would probably decrease the number of failed rolls if you had the book on you as you were attempting to do the task, and help you learn faster.

Books should have quality values, but only to determine how long they need before re-binding.

[LordZorintrhox]

Uh, hang on there.  As the Toady quote mentions, in a quasi-medieval setting, most books would likely be written on parchment/vellum from calfskin, NOT paper made from wood pulp.  You would need a herd of cows, lye, and either a parchment workshop or more options are the tannery ( though the parchment is not tanned, this would be a reasonable association ).

Furthermore, you'd need either an alchemist option or a parchment workshop option for making black gall ink from processed oak galls for tanic acid, plus green vitriol/iron sulfate.  Reeds for caligraphy and quills for regular script would also be necessary.  Hell, while we're at it, include bone stylus thingies too.

A calligrapher would necessarily need the reed and stylus, and even if you included wood paper, a master calligrapher wouldn't work with anything less than parchment ( since it does not absorb gall ink, mistakes can be scraped off without damaging the parchment ).

That said, bare minimum you would need the new job class Scribe, with subclasses Calligrapher, Notary/Scribe, Book Binder, Parchmentist ( is that even a word? ), and possibly Scribe's apprentice, who makes the ink, and carves styluses, reeds, and quills.  I suppose those could be under crafts, it would be nice if it was set off.

For solid bindings, I'd guess catgut or the like would also be needed ( produced at the tannery?).  Adding a mechanic for "locked" books would be cool too, giving the key to specific persons.  How that would affect Dwarf mode I don't know, but in Adventure mode it adds some fun possibilities.

For scrolls, the rollers would need to be produced out of, of course, wood, stone, metal, glass, etc.

Whoa, more of a rant than I was planning.  In any case, a quasi medieval setting necessitates books being expensive and time consuming to produce.  One can not really just easily produce them by hand, as much as we all like the mystique of D&D universes where books are so ubiquitous it is almost silly.  Then again, as Rhenaya said, Dwarf Fortress is rather D&D-esque, so taking books too seriously might be a spot of excessive realism in a world where magma furnaces are reasonable devices...so awesome.

[alfie275]

What about in adventure mode fake bookcases which are doors and can only
opened by trying to read one of the books it contains, it must be the perticular book so you can read the others as well.

[Silverionmox]

Paper came into use in Europe from the 12th century onward. Some books from that time actually consist out of a few dozen pages of parchment, with a few hundred pages of paper after that. So whenever paper was available, they would use that for practical stuff, like bookkeeping. Luxurious bibles, psalm books etc. still used parchment. I would imagine that dwarves use the most abundant material they have for bookkeeping - stone, preferable slate or another type that easily splits into thin slices.

Even printing with movable type happened before 1400 AD. It probably won't be upsetting the game balance: luxury books will retain their value by grace of their craftsmanship and materials. There's just more writing material available for practical applications, or to let every dwarf in your fortress own a copy of "Lord of the Socks" instead of having to read it on the walls of the catacombs.

Concerning the subjobs, that was all included in a scribe's work, with the exception of preparing the parchment, which would be the tanner's job. But hopefully we'll get a modular job system, and then we can group the tasks however we want, and stick a name on it.

Otherwise, plenty of fun stuff to do with books (ink, materials, decoration, quests, rarity, mandates, random stories,  etc.)