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Author Topic: books and scrolls  (Read 3514 times)

Rhenaya

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books and scrolls
« on: January 01, 2009, 06:27:20 am »

at first a few new buildings:
papermill: needs power, a serrated disc and any building material (wood, stone, metal)
libary: just a building material

a lot of new stuff:
paper: the basic stuff, made in the papermill with a bucket of water (well or river should be nearby) and a unit of wood, the buket will be empty and reusable of course
scrolls: a empty scroll can be created on the libary with one unit of paper
books: 5 paper or 5 empty scrolls and a unit of wood (cover) can be bind together as a book at the libary
bookcase: blacksmith/carpenter/mason/glass acts like a chest for books, bookcases can be made a libary too, its like a stature park another meeting area

a new skill: writing and a new job type libarian

so what can be done with them?
at first case it may be more interesting with the magics arc (or something)

but it could also be of use now:
bookkeeper, manager and broker in large fortresses may need books for their work and bookcases in their offices
this seems to be pretty clear, i dont think a bookkeeper cant hold up with the 10000 units of stone clutterin the shafts without a record keeping method beside his brain. also broker and manager will use a book or scroll to fill in their needs. the last two may need only one book for 5 years (or a scroll per year). the bookkeeper may need one scroll per 1000 units of stuff (so a book for 5000).
scrolls or books needed with this stuff will be called "stock scroll/book" for the bookkeeper, "manager scroll/book" for the manager and "trade scroll/book" for the broker, viewing such an item will show on the discription what stuff shows on what/which year/s it was used. for archelogic adventures another way to find out of the history of a fortress ^^

also the major or higher nobles will demand a scroll for diplomacy and trading aggreements in large fortresses, so no scrolls around: buy some from the humans or dwarfs or you will piss off nobles and ambassors ^^ so they also demand a book case in their rooms sooner or later to store the "aggrement scrolls"

dwarfs can use bookcases also in their private rooms, also a shop may get a book store and they buy some books.
this brings to the next tasks:
dwarfs with libarian skills my make the scrolls/books but more important they can write books
there should be two types of books: skill books and general books
the later may be "history books" or a novel ... depending on what a dwarf likes.
history books act like engravments, except for the fact it will be used more on legends and some artifacts, instead of most commonly the fortress itself (so exact the other way around engravings work). novels may act the same but instead they are discribing randomly generated never happened stuff. therefore are different types of novels (just to keep up with dfs detailism). all novels and history books of course only hold up one liners about the content.
"legend novel": they discribe things before year 0, so it is totaly unclear if it really happened about things you wont see in the legends, or is some dwarfen lore to keep children in line ^^
"romance novel": well it may or may not refer to a real lover pair in your fort, but at least its a novel
"adventure novel": it discribe about battles or heros never were in the world, or maybe refer to one great legend with a lot of fantasy of the writing dwarf. (like killing about 10 dragons but the real creature in lore only killed a single crocodile ^^). it may also refer to your adventure mode beings ^^

good writer make higher quality books, they can be encrusted with gems and stuff like other furniture

dwarfs may read a book in their "on break" or "idle" time from their personal bookcase or a book case in a meeting hall room (dining room, barrak, statue park, zoo, etc.), and thus it make them a happy thought, better books make happier thoughts, also i think its kinda fun if you get a fortress of your friend and discover it in adventure mode and find this books, and real them like engravings too ;p or just another way to buy things from caravans ;)


the other thing is a skill book: a libarian ordered to make a skill book will follow a dwarf with the profession and write, depending on how good the one is in his profession and the writer himself the book get better quality. so a legendary writer following a legendary miner make some kind of masterfully crafted "how to mine" book ^^ encrusting and stuff make the books more expensive, but it doesnt affect a reader much.
this skill books will be stored in public book cases, dwarfs with idle time try to get a book from their skill, so they can improve their own with just reading (but not to high) also children will pick a book and learn from it, so they wont only be peasants any more than growing up (you better not let your libarian ever write a book about a soap maker :D)

i dont know if v41 will get implemented something like inteligence to the strength/tough/agile attributes, but this would be the perfect thing on how fast people learn from skill books, or write books (like its kinda odd that the bookkeeper sitting 6 months in his office is the most agile dwarf for years), and more inteligent dwarfs get more happines from good novels but less from lesser ones (common books for common people you know). so this would be a new measurement for dwarfs too!
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From "Angroshs Kinder" Das schwarze Auge Zwergenhandbuch - (Angrosh Children, the dark eye, german pen&paper, dwarven handbook):
"Elves!? Their men dont wear beards, and their women bathe nacked to lure you into the water and drown you. Thank Angrosh they are as ugly as the day and all big and skinny."

Rhenaya

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Re: books and scrolls
« Reply #1 on: January 01, 2009, 06:31:37 am »

oh most important really forgott:
another way to waste wood, and piss off our lovly neighbors!

edit: yes this deserves a own post!
and now also in eternal voting!
« Last Edit: January 01, 2009, 06:43:38 am by Rhenaya »
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From "Angroshs Kinder" Das schwarze Auge Zwergenhandbuch - (Angrosh Children, the dark eye, german pen&paper, dwarven handbook):
"Elves!? Their men dont wear beards, and their women bathe nacked to lure you into the water and drown you. Thank Angrosh they are as ugly as the day and all big and skinny."

madrain

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Re: books and scrolls
« Reply #2 on: January 01, 2009, 07:21:18 am »

I don't like the idea of skill books.  What is this, Fallout?  The rest of the suggestions are okay, though.  I mean, happy thoughts and better bookkeeping and junk.

I also think it'd be neat as another form of "engraving," the way books are usually treated in crpgs.  This book features a story about elves and dwarves.  The elves are eating the dwarves.

You'd pick them up in adventurer mode to read, and then throw them or use them to club puppies to death.  :D

Also it's a nice pre-emptive addition before any sort of magic gets added to the game, since I'd imagine any magic system will include spell books and scrolls.
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Silverionmox

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Re: books and scrolls
« Reply #3 on: January 01, 2009, 07:40:32 am »

Also it's a nice pre-emptive addition before any sort of magic gets added to the game, since I'd imagine any magic system will include spell books and scrolls.
That's not at all necessary: there could be magical abilities innate, granted by a certain entity, arising from group rituals, orally transmitted or anything else.

Magic needn't be a pseudoscientific endeavour with formulas, laws and effects independent of the persons involved.

There will be some kind of spellbooks, of course, but there are plenty of ways to record instructions for this specific kind of magic.
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Tormy

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Re: books and scrolls
« Reply #4 on: January 01, 2009, 07:45:28 am »

Also it's a nice pre-emptive addition before any sort of magic gets added to the game, since I'd imagine any magic system will include spell books and scrolls.
That's not at all necessary: there could be magical abilities innate, granted by a certain entity, arising from group rituals, orally transmitted or anything else.

Magic needn't be a pseudoscientific endeavour with formulas, laws and effects independent of the persons involved.

There will be some kind of spellbooks, of course, but there are plenty of ways to record instructions for this specific kind of magic.

Yeah, rune magic or psionists are good examples also.
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stummel

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Re: books and scrolls
« Reply #5 on: January 01, 2009, 07:58:43 am »

also children will pick a book and learn from it, so they wont only be peasants any more than growing up

I really do like this. There could be another interesting topic -> "Job: teacher".
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Jack_Bread

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Re: books and scrolls
« Reply #6 on: January 01, 2009, 08:12:43 am »

Bookbinding should be it's own skill (I SAY YAH TO FISH CLEANING! :D(J/K)). Anyway, books can also, and are mainly back then, bound with leather, or leather-covered wood.

EDIT: Reading your post made me draw this...
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: January 01, 2009, 08:48:21 am by Jack_Bread »
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Pilsu

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Re: books and scrolls
« Reply #7 on: January 01, 2009, 08:59:15 am »

Filling up a ledger in 5 years? Please, 90% of the pages would have to be crudely designed etchings of dwarves lifting skirts

I don't think books need quality levels, any stories inside could though. A single leather bound ledger you bring in the first year should be enough for all book keeping. If it's ever lost, you'd have to start over

Historian should be a noble, not a random peasant. They could always spawn with certain personality traits such as respecting tradition and other suitable qualities

Don't know who would write other stories though, peasants taking up writing doesn't really strike me as medieval
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Rhenaya

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Re: books and scrolls
« Reply #8 on: January 01, 2009, 10:42:52 am »

a dwarven book maybe not as big as a book we know :p

also it snot medivial its dwarven, or do you gt nobles making historical engravings? no? just peasants too? oh yeah :p

the book core quality is of course the quality of the story, but with encrustings and stuff on the outside it gets a nice cover and so its nice to look at too and make the greedy dwarves happy, like it makes them happy to look on a fancy stature with a high value ;) also the story inside makes them even more happy :p

well yeah actually you need 3 jobs/skills for this:
one job/skill for the papermill, one for the bookbinding and one for the writing.

and true a book should be made of 5 paper/scrolls and wood or leather for the cover. but hey its a suggestion and i never claimed it totaly ready ;p


and i dont know about fallout and skill books... but hell, in reallife i learn from books too and gain some basics, long before i do the real practice work
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From "Angroshs Kinder" Das schwarze Auge Zwergenhandbuch - (Angrosh Children, the dark eye, german pen&paper, dwarven handbook):
"Elves!? Their men dont wear beards, and their women bathe nacked to lure you into the water and drown you. Thank Angrosh they are as ugly as the day and all big and skinny."

perilisk

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Re: books and scrolls
« Reply #9 on: January 01, 2009, 11:52:15 am »

I don't like the idea of skill books.  What is this, Fallout?  The rest of the suggestions are okay, though.  I mean, happy thoughts and better bookkeeping and junk.

I also think it'd be neat as another form of "engraving," the way books are usually treated in crpgs.  This book features a story about elves and dwarves.  The elves are eating the dwarves.

You'd pick them up in adventurer mode to read, and then throw them or use them to club puppies to death.  :D

Also it's a nice pre-emptive addition before any sort of magic gets added to the game, since I'd imagine any magic system will include spell books and scrolls.

I dunno about skill books, but you could use scrolls as way of propagating technological knowledge, as "recipe" books, basically. You could add scrolls to a kitchen to create special foods and the like, or they could contain instructions for creating alloys or soap or clear glass and so on. Or herbalists could carry a book that indicates what plants are good for picking and which ones are not, etc.
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Pilsu

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Re: books and scrolls
« Reply #10 on: January 01, 2009, 12:13:43 pm »

Peasants training to be engravers is a bit different from poets and the like since stone is a bit more available than books and paper

I wanted no quality levels simply because it'd drive me mad to have to throw my no quality decades old ledger into the magma pipe and replace it with a fancy one later out of sheer perfectionism, that thing is historical. Or painstakingly do without one for years until I can get some peasant to master level papermaker so he can make me a masterwork book to store my plump helmet figures in

I suppose ledgers could be separate from other types of books in that regard
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Rhenaya

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Re: books and scrolls
« Reply #11 on: January 01, 2009, 01:20:06 pm »

the empty scrolls/books are considered as material and so wont have a quality, only the outcoming, and thus it only decirbs the quality of the inside.
and well, if you dont want to throw old and bad books into the magmapipe, what else do you do with your old furniture, clothing and so on? and you can consider making different value books, i mean a inteligant dwarf will grab a higher quality book than a "dumb" one, the later would be overwhelmed from it.

and yes stone is more common, but you cant think of fantasy as pure medival, i mean in most fantasy lore you have endless libaries of books, even the most commonors have a bookcase in their houses.
the only fantasy system i can recall now with a high grade of medival in their dwarf and elves fantasy is a german pen&paper (das schwarze auge/the black eye). there you really consider a libery full of books as a gold vault. but not in the default fantasy, there are books common and everyone can get and them and also write and read. thus we are not in european medival there only monks and nobles can read and write and got books :p
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From "Angroshs Kinder" Das schwarze Auge Zwergenhandbuch - (Angrosh Children, the dark eye, german pen&paper, dwarven handbook):
"Elves!? Their men dont wear beards, and their women bathe nacked to lure you into the water and drown you. Thank Angrosh they are as ugly as the day and all big and skinny."

Pilsu

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Re: books and scrolls
« Reply #12 on: January 01, 2009, 01:57:37 pm »

if you dont want to throw old and bad books into the magmapipe, what else do you do with your old furniture, clothing and so on?

Burn or more likely, sell it

My hamlet book keeping records will become historical artifacts in time, I'd prefer if they were the originals. A bed's just a bed but a record of all material traffic in my fort since it's beginning deserves better than a +book+. It's the closest thing to a founding relic we'd have
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Rhenaya

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Re: books and scrolls
« Reply #13 on: January 01, 2009, 02:24:22 pm »

with years passing and fortress growing you will just need more bookcases to save your records... only the novels and skill books may "outdate" because of their quality. the nobles will keep your record books and agreements forever. if you burn them, its your thing, but they will not get outdated. if you loose them anyway you may get a very angry broker because all his work of the last years is away.
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From "Angroshs Kinder" Das schwarze Auge Zwergenhandbuch - (Angrosh Children, the dark eye, german pen&paper, dwarven handbook):
"Elves!? Their men dont wear beards, and their women bathe nacked to lure you into the water and drown you. Thank Angrosh they are as ugly as the day and all big and skinny."

Pilsu

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Re: books and scrolls
« Reply #14 on: January 01, 2009, 03:38:10 pm »

Yeah well, I'd prefer my filing cabinet was filled with tomes of equal quality worthy of the hovel that was founded that day

I wouldn't mind storybooks and other stuff that holds no historical significance getting replaced
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