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[TheSilverHammer]

Here is a list of some items Id like to be put in the game.

Scaffolding:  These temporary, stackable structures are basically mobile up/down stairs used by dwarfs for construction.   The idea is that they are used like real scaffolding and allow dwarfs to build in normally inaccessible areas.

For example, if you want to make a wall 5 z-levels high, you need to micromanage each level and build floors as needed so a dwarf has a place to stand when making each level of the wall.   With scaffolding, you would just place 5 walls on top of each other and the dwarfs would build the first level, then scaffolding next to it, build the next, then extend the scaffolding, and repeat until the 5 level high wall was done.  After that, the scaffolding is removed and packed away until it is needed elsewhere.

Bins of Stone:  Why can't we make bins and barrels of stone?   I can think that someone might believe that a stone bin or barrel would be far to heavy to use and that is why.  However, let me point out that you can make them out of metal and metal is FAR heavier then stone.   Don't believe me?  Here is a Table of common materials with their weight per cubic foot.   From this table some stone weights:  Granite (168), Slate(168), Dolomite(181).    Metal weights: Copper(542), Iron(450), Brass(534), Steel(490).

So a bin made out of Granite would weigh less then half of that made from any other metal.   I can't see why barrels and bins can't be made from stone.   They are one thing you need plenty of, and stone is one thing you have in abundance.   Besides, it could help reconcile the problem with the elves.   They hate things made of wood, but even they trade in wooden barrels.  Maybe stone barrels and bins might be in big demand because they are 'tree friendly'.

Carts:  In effect they simply increase the carrying capacity of dwarfs who can move faster and carry more.  These are pretty primitive inventions that dwarfs should have.

Resource Pits:  Just the same as pits are now, only you can store wood and stone in them.  Since you can't 'bin' stone or logs, pits should allow you to store large quantities in small spaces (taking advantage of the Z space).

Trough:  Like a channel, only it is built UP instead of down.   Built on the same Z-Level, it provides a path for fluids.  It should be accessible (for drinking) on the same Z level it is built on.

Wall Tap:  I am not sure if this a good name, but it strikes me that if there is a wall and on the other side of it you know there is water or magma, why do you need to tear down the wall and then build something like a door in its place?   A wall tap would be simply installing a small door/ window in an existing wall that can be open and shut via a lever.   This way you do not need to tear down the wall first and risk flooding.

Reverse Gear:  Not really an item, but a 'mode' you can add to a lever.  Only applicable to water pumps now, but it will allow the machine to operate backwoods.   This way a single water pump can fill and empty the same room.

[Draco18s]

Metal bins can also be 1/100th the thickness of a stone bin and thus 1/100th the material resulting in 1/50th the weight.

Pumps, in the real world, are not ussually bi-directional.  The kind of pump DF uses is an Archemedes Screw, which works in one direction.

Carts have been requested repeatedly.

[penguinofhonor]

.

[Draco18s]

Ok, so they can carry a bin made of stone.  But what if they fill that bin with stone blocks?

[Tahin]

Well, then they revert to their natural state: Fucked.

[Demosthenes]

If you want to build a stone wall, Construct Up/Down staircases and use Bridges instead of floors, seeing as you can build from them, and they deconstruct easier.

Barrels and bins of stone dont make sense. Liquids can seep through some porous stone barrels (My entire fort is nothing but very porous stone), and bins would be heavy, because they'd be thick. Glass barrels and bins, on the other hand...

Carts are coming, I believe.

Resource bits are all ready in. Dig a pit, Mark it as a garbage dump activity area, then mark the resource you want to put in the pit with "Dump". You can store an infinite amount of items in one space with this method, so it may be a bug. I'm voting for warehouses,though. 3x3 buildings that hold X (Identical, maybe) items/liquids.

I have no idea what you mean with you're trough idea. I don't think that's how fluids work in this game, if you're saying what I think you're saying.

Pumps don't work that way. It's a screw pump, so it only goes one way. And pumps  don't pump from the z level they're on, so reverse wouldn't work too well.

[ January 03, 2008: Message edited by: Demosthenes ]

[Pandarsenic]

Trough = Old channels, I think

[BurnedToast]

quote:Originally posted by Draco18s:
<STRONG>
Pumps, in the real world, are not ussually bi-directional.  The kind of pump DF uses is an Archemedes Screw, which works in one direction.</STRONG>

I see no reason why an Archimedes' screw would not work backwards (assuming, of course, the out end was under water). In fact, I bet you could probably extract a little power out of it by letting the water flow down through it, though probably not enough to matter for anything.

[Bricktop]

If I understand it correctly then the trough idea would be useless. What you are describing is a wall. If you want troughs like that, make them out of walls. Simple.

[veryinky]

I've been wanting a compromise on this idea for a while now. Where chest (and bags) built into a room count as bins if the area is designated as a stockpile. I've always hated that the dwarven treasury (coins stockpile) was full of wood bins instead of chests.
Chests - generic immobile bin substitute
bags - generic immobile bin substitute and for food/seed stockpiles
cabinets - for clothes/finished goods stockpiles
armor racks - count as immobile bins for armor stockpiles
weapon racks - count as immobile for weapon stockpiles

"Built" containers would replace the bins where it's not necessary to bring the whole bin to the trade depot. So a 10x5 coins stockpile would consider there to be a bin where the player has put chests or bags.

Also, large glass jugs for an alternative to barrels.

[TheSilverHammer]

Reverse Screwpumps:  There is no reason they can't work in both directions.  A giant screw in a tube can turn either way.

Stone bins and barrels:  Granted metal bins can be much thinner and therefor lighter, however, some stones are fairly light and a lot of stones are not porous.  Lava rock (which is a form of obsidian) is incredibly light, almost akin to styrofoam, is absolutely water proof.   A barrel made of this stuff would never leak.  Maybe as a building you can construct vats which hold vast amounts of liquid.  It can't be moved, but you might be able to store 100 barrels of Rum in it.  Smaller stone bins can be moved, especially with carts.   Larger ones (perhaps built in like vats) can be used to store stuff in a warehouse fashion.  It increase the stack size at the cost of not being able to move the stack easily.

Resource Pits:  I suppose what you suggest will work, but I think it would be classified as a bug or oversight.   What I am asking for is a formal method that makes sense.  Allowing an infinite number of items in a 1x1 square doesn't.   A pit of coal, wood, stone, etc, is fine.    They should have a capacity, but it should be pretty big.  If water stacks to 7 units high, then a 10x10 wood pit could hold 10x10x7 piles of wood, or more if the pit is more then 1 z-level deep.

Trough:  It is not the same as building a wall.   The idea is that the fluid is accessible on the same z-level as the trough itself.  For example, z-level 0 is the main floor.  I build a trough on z-level 0 which is filled with water.   Dwarfs on z-level 0 could drink from it.   With walls, they would need to be on z-level 1 to use it.  With channels, you would need to make sure that nothing on z-level -1 was impacted.   However after thinking about this request, Id like to cancel it.  It would be hard to implement since pumps move water in stacks of 7, and a trough being not 7 units high would overflow unless a special pump was made that only pumped smaller stacks of water.   This is too much to ask for the utility it would provide.

Scaffolding vs Stairs:   Stairs would need to be micro-managed, which is the whole reason I want scaffolding, so you don't need to micro-manage it.   I gave an example of a simply stone tower which stairs work fine with.  However imagine a thin wall that is 20 units long, and 5 z-levels in height.   Now you need to build 20 sets of stairs 5 levels high to build each column of 5 blocks.

[axus]

I like the immovable vat building idea, I was trying to think of a way to do vats but it always sounded like bigger barrels.  Being immovable would be a good drawback.  I think it would have to be brewed all at once, having dwarves dump in barrels is probably a lot of stuff to add.

[Nesoo]

quote:Originally posted by TheSilverHammer:
<STRONG>Scaffolding vs Stairs:   Stairs would need to be micro-managed, which is the whole reason I want scaffolding, so you don't need to micro-manage it.   I gave an example of a simply stone tower which stairs work fine with.  However imagine a thin wall that is 20 units long, and 5 z-levels in height.   Now you need to build 20 sets of stairs 5 levels high to build each column of 5 blocks.</STRONG>

Methinks you're doing something wrong, then. There are two easy ways around this, though the first one is still micromanaging.

code:

# = rock walls
+ = floor from walls below
X = up/down stairs
Assume level Z  had a line of walls built, this is Z+1:
##++++++++++++++++++++##
           X
Build walls from outside towards stairs (which means designating one at a time on each side):
##=====O++++++O=======##
           X
Repeat at next level up.

Or as Demosthenes said, use bridges:

code:

As above:
##++++++++++++++++++++##
           X
Add bridges to both sides:
##++++++++++++++++++++##
  [=======]X[========]
Build all walls at once:
##====================##
  [=======]X[========]
Remove bridges:
##====================##
           X
Go up next level, repeat.

All that said, however, having scaffolding would still be useful (especially for irregular shapes), so it gets my approval anyway  

[Draco18s]

quote:Originally posted by BurnedToast:
<STRONG>I see no reason why an Archimedes' screw would not work backwards (assuming, of course, the out end was under water). In fact, I bet you could probably extract a little power out of it by letting the water flow down through it, though probably not enough to matter for anything.</STRONG>

You ever used one?  Water doesn't push the screw around in the slightest, if anything it leaks down around the screw making it an inefficient pump. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sg0S_2USKmo&feature=related
Watch the bottom of it.  The only thing keeping water moving upward is that it's moving up faster than it's moving down, but you get pittifully small output complared to the initial draw.

If anything, a pump in DF should be "leaky" in that while pumping or not, water is flowing in the wrong direction at a constant rate.

[TheSilverHammer]

If you wish to micro making a wall at once, then you can get away with one stair, but once again, I am trying to get rid of that micro.

Lets say I have this designation:
o = built wall section
- = designated section
x = stair
D = Dwarf

    x
----------------------

What is likely to happen:
    x
---o----oD--------oooo

Now if I place them one at a time and wait for them to be built, I can pull it off, but once again, that is a lot of micro.