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Author Topic: Trying to start my first fortess.  (Read 2766 times)

Marlowe

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Re: Trying to start my first fortess.
« Reply #15 on: December 30, 2008, 07:30:45 pm »

Something like "Urist McIdiot cancels stroll: interrupted by fire imp"?

Grass fire.
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Haven

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Re: Trying to start my first fortess.
« Reply #16 on: December 30, 2008, 08:00:32 pm »

... You know how to swap Z-levels, correct? Either / and * or else < and >. I'm guessing this might be handy from the references to the lack of Z-Levels and overabundance of sand. That, and the fact that my first play was with the exact same problem. Got the Mayday set without paying attention to the control change. Intrepidly dealing with the vicious aquifers known otherwise as ponds.

Aside from that... I dunno. I usually work with what I've got. The other forumers should know more about resources.
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(name here)

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Re: Trying to start my first fortess.
« Reply #17 on: December 30, 2008, 08:21:23 pm »

I once saw a volcano erupt, too. small flood of lava covered the obsidian and went a bit further.
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Savok

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Re: Trying to start my first fortess.
« Reply #18 on: December 30, 2008, 08:52:14 pm »

Food will start going bad under the burning light of the sun.
Lies! Food will start going bad when exposed, in neither a stockpile or a barrel.
Leave food in stagnant water in a hot jungle and it'll stay perfectly fresh for years, so long as you keep the tile it's own designated as a food stockpile for that type of food. Possibly just a food stockpile. Possibly just a stockpile.
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Zerris

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Re: Trying to start my first fortess.
« Reply #19 on: December 30, 2008, 09:02:40 pm »

Well my latest attempt at a fortress was a bust.. oh I got magma alright.. just couldn't find the damned brook that was supposed to be on the map.. or the trees..

And yeah lots of excess sand seems to be limit to like 5 Z-Levels total..  And it keeps filling itself back in as you dig.. so very annoying..
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SolarShado

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Re: Trying to start my first fortess.
« Reply #20 on: December 30, 2008, 09:32:08 pm »

on food spoilage: i don't think food'll go bad if you leave it in the wagon, it doesn't seem to anyway
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Royal Surveyor

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Re: Trying to start my first fortess.
« Reply #21 on: December 30, 2008, 10:48:27 pm »

Sand filling back on itself, you say?

What version are you using?
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Vincent

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Re: Trying to start my first fortess.
« Reply #22 on: December 31, 2008, 03:11:18 am »

PROTIP: Make sure the mountain range isn't savage, or you'll get a Giant Eagle.

IN THE FACE.

Sand thing is bizzare.

Another protip: Use stone for everthing you can. I made this mistake, and ended up with not enough stone and too much wood.

Yet another protip: Avoid chasms for now. GCS tend to kill off fortresses quickly in the early stages.

Still another protip: Avoid extreme temperatures.

Aren't you getting tired of these protips?: Generally, look for a Calm/wilderness area with mountains and woodland, with a brook. Other biomes are for self-impsed challenges.
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JoshuaFH

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Re: Trying to start my first fortess.
« Reply #23 on: December 31, 2008, 03:32:22 am »

Yeah, about the food spoiling thing, plants NEVER GO BAD EVER! things like meat and fish however, will rot if left in an outside tile, regardless if it's in a stockpile or not. although the stockpile DOES IN FACT slow down the rate at which it decays.

I know, my outside food stockpile for my herbalists never ever has plants rot inside of it. While the meat and fish (which i CLOSELY monitor, as to gather more info for bone collecting) rotted while in the stockpile, but rotted faster while outside of the stockpile.

Don't know about this "sand filling up on itself" nonsense, i'da seen something like that by now.

My only tip for you Zerris, is to search for ANY neutral forested spot. If you want to learn without worrying about goblins attacking you, you can turn them off in the init. which i'll explain if you need an explanation.

Also, try consulting captain_duck's tutorial videos! He's surprisingly informative!
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Marlowe

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Re: Trying to start my first fortess.
« Reply #24 on: December 31, 2008, 08:09:27 am »

OK, let's leave the food decay and sandfill things and volcanic eruptions for now. The first is an overstated problem: Just get your food in a stockpile, preferably underground (I'm thinking more for protection from animals than spoilage) as soon as possible. The second two are really weird, should not be happening, and make me think you might have a buggy installation.

There's two basic schools of thought with regard to where fortresses should be started
1, somewhere with magma
2, On sedimentary rock (the stuff that shows in white letters on the embark screen) plus trees.

For both, a brook is a help as well. But don't embark on an aquifer (blue lines in the soil layers), or on anywhere there's no soil.

 If the biome is freezing, don't go for a brook, go for an aquifer instead. It's the only way to get water and it's relatively easy to penetrate an aquifer in freezing conditions.

As to the schools of thought above, 1; (the magma route) will give you smelting and forging once the infrastructure is in place without need for fuel. The disadvantage is the fire imps can pose a notably early-game threat and areas with magma are often very poor on useful metals. Sometimes you get lucky and have lots of iron, sometimes you break even and get copper, and sometimes you don't get anything beyond a few aluminium pockets.

 2; (the sedimentary forest route) will give you iron in abundance but you'll have to burn fuel to smelt and forge it. This is not as bad as it sounds because sedimentary rock contains butinimous coal and lignite. A couple of veins of the former will probably provide a fortress with all the fuel it needs for years and by the time it runs out you'll have enough ironmongery to hold off the golden horde. Note that you'll need to burn some wood to start with before you can start making the coke.

Of the two options, I think that option 2 is stronger and more dependable. Option 1 appears to be more popular. This seems to be because many who play this game started playing at a time when magma was a guaranteed feature of every fortress and they can't imagine going without it. If you have some coal seams, the magma will only be really missed if you want to melt down a lot of captured equipment (just sell it. If you're on sedimentary you won't need the bonus iron).

Starting without either magma or sedimentary will make for a challenge. Starting with both can be done in some areas but it's a struggle. SOmething like one in every ten worlds might have such an area.

I haven't mentioned steelmaking, because it's a tedious process requiring flux and coal. If you're on magma you probably won't even get to try. Even on sedimentary, the process is so irritating and fuel-intensive I gave it up a long time ago. Note that though steel is the strongest common metal, it's also got a really high base value, meaning producing it will attract goblins in heavy numbers.

Digging into a mountainside is a traditional way of starting a fort. I like to start on the flat and dig straight down, as a flat area is much easier to fortify than a bunch of slopes and I tend to play with lots of local opposition.

Don't embark anywhere without trees unless you really want a struggle. Carrying wood with you is possible, but the time it take to haul useful quantities of wood inside can put a real crimp on the first season. Getting wood from trading is also quite hit and miss.

I recommend taking lots of copper picks, even at the cost of an axe. Set everyone bar one woodcutter to work mining right anyway. It doesn't matter what their "real" jobs are. They can start doing them when you've made a place to live.

As for biomes. Haven't really seen too much different between the various savagery levels to be honest. "Untamed/Joyous wilds" might have one big predator over the calm/serene areas. Sometimes not even that. The evil biomes are a very mixed bag. It would be more useful to know if such an area has undead or monsters rather than it's savagery level, but there's no way of telling (some people will tell you that the difference is colour-coded in the embark screen. This seems to be wrong). Undead areas are more fun but generally more dangerous, though terrifying monsterous swamps have an evil reputation.

« Last Edit: December 31, 2008, 12:22:35 pm by Marlowe »
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tigrex

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Re: Trying to start my first fortess.
« Reply #25 on: January 01, 2009, 10:32:15 am »

Also, don't reset at the first sign of trouble.  Figuring out how to mitigate unexpected obstacles makes the game much more fun.  After all, a masterwork tomb with engravings and artifacts is no good unless you have corpses to fill it with.
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GenericOverusedName

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Re: Trying to start my first fortess.
« Reply #26 on: January 01, 2009, 10:41:31 am »

Regarding the current food debate: Food may or may not 'rot' at different rates inside, outside, above or below ground, but I do know that verminous critters will have an easier time nibbling at it if you leave it out in the open.

Furthermore, learn to use cave-ins. They make for fun chaos and shenanigans! Any tile that is not connected to another tile either vertically (up/down) or horizontally (left/right/top/bottom) will collapse. Remember, diagonal connections do NOT count as support! And 'Supports' can be constructed, and you can hook them up to a lever to make them disappear. Collapses on demand!
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(name here)

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Re: Trying to start my first fortess.
« Reply #27 on: January 01, 2009, 10:48:02 am »

On steelmaking: If you aren't on magma, don't even bother. i recall that it takes nearly 100 trees to armor one guy in steel plate.

Not plate-and-chain, just plate.
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Savok

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Re: Trying to start my first fortess.
« Reply #28 on: January 01, 2009, 11:52:31 am »

On steelmaking: If you aren't on magma, don't even bother. i recall that it takes nearly 100 trees to armor one guy in steel plate.

Not plate-and-chain, just plate.
...assuming you have no coal. Coal works well as a tree replacement for steelmaking.
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Tcei

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Re: Trying to start my first fortess.
« Reply #29 on: January 01, 2009, 03:01:29 pm »

It sounds like you may have a bugged version with the sand and magma issues.  I'd recomend reinstalling into a new folder just to see. I know the volcanic eruptions were a bug caused by volcanoes and bottomless pits being in the same square, I think that's been fixed in the latest version tho...or at least I seem to recall that.  For your first few fortresses I wouldnt worry too much about having magma/sand on it  You'll be bussy enough learning just the basics of survival :P Least I did.

IMHO the best beginner areas to look for are areas with a mountain next to a forrest and a brook in any biomes that aren't terrifying/haunted/sinister. To help reduce the chances of nasties. This'll most likely have everything you'll need for that first fortress.  The brook will give a constant supply of water, rather than pools which can dry up or freeze solid depending on biomes.
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