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[SirHoneyBadger]

This is another of those suggestions where I'm not sure if it's been requested before, or not, but I'm not sure how I'd search for it, either.

Some thoughts on noble (etc.) demands, and how they might be less annoying work more smoothly, in the game:

I think it would be nice if your Nobles, et all, could make their noble demands, for less rare/difficult items, but that there would be a cut-off point, where the noble would realize that a desire is very hard to meet, and would instead make a request for the more rare/bizarre/difficult items in the game, especially if those items aren't stocked in your inventory.

To give an example: A noble might demand a clear glass window, and why shouldn't he? it's not that unreasonable, but if the same noble really wanted a window made out of star ruby, he'd have to just request it, and hope for the best.

Also, it would be great if Nobles made demands, based on things they'd encountered, or items that are actually available, with requests being for more random things, and things the Noble happens to like.

For example: A noble that saw, or heard about, an elephant that had killed several of your dwarfs, might demand a throne made from elephant bones.

or

If there's already a star ruby in your treasury, then a noble might demand that it be made into a window for his quarters.

But, if the noble happens to like blue diamonds, and you don't *have* any blue diamonds, then the noble could request them, but would be smart enough not to demand them.

The mechanical difference between a request and a demand would be that, while fulfilling a request would give the noble happy thoughts, not fulfilling it wouldn't give negative thoughts or bad moods.

If a noble became insane, then it might be possible for all request/demands to become *all* requests, or *all* demands, meaning that the noble might request even very simple, easy to obtain items, or might start making demands for a diamond-studded adamantium crown, in the first year of your fortress.

[Tormy]

Yeah, we've talked a lot about the mandate system before [it has it's problems, it's quite clear], even tho I am not sure that this request vs. demand stuff has been suggested before or not. I like the idea anyway. 

[SirHoneyBadger]

Thanks!

I figured there was a good chance it had been mulled over before, but I was hoping-if so-to atleast bring something to the table.

[irmo]

"Princes were taught a thing or two about being rational, as they were taught to play a little lute and dance a passable ricercar. But what drove their actions was their own force of will; in the end they did as they pleased, rational or not."
-- Neal Stephenson, Quicksilver

It seems out of character for nobles to willingly back off from their demands just because something is rare, expensive, or impossible. To the contrary, the more rare, expensive, and impossible it is, the more Baron Urist is going to believe he's entitled to have one in his dining room. That's the difference between nobles and everyone else.

I'd rather deal with the problem of impossible noble demands by having them use their political connections and buy whatever weird thing they want if the local dwarves don't provide it quickly enough. Of course they'll buy it on fortress credit, which means that when the caravan arrives, you'll have to pay for it, probably through the nose.

[TettyNullus]

"Princes were taught a thing or two about being rational, as they were taught to play a little lute and dance a passable ricercar. But what drove their actions was their own force of will; in the end they did as they pleased, rational or not."
-- Neal Stephenson, Quicksilver

It seems out of character for nobles to willingly back off from their demands just because something is rare, expensive, or impossible. To the contrary, the more rare, expensive, and impossible it is, the more Baron Urist is going to believe he's entitled to have one in his dining room. That's the difference between nobles and everyone else.

I'd rather deal with the problem of impossible noble demands by having them use their political connections and buy whatever weird thing they want if the local dwarves don't provide it quickly enough. Of course they'll buy it on fortress credit, which means that when the caravan arrives, you'll have to pay for it, probably through the nose.

I actually wouldn't mind that, would give me some real reason to sell to carvans as opposed to using it to bootstrap me then generally considering it a friendly annoyance or alternative to mining for metal (Not to mention having to rid of several tonnes of goblin panties )

[Pilsu]

This could also lead to commoners requesting things for their weddings and otherwise

'They've decided to forego any formal celebrations' just because I didn't have a meeting area assigned to avoid parties is a load of bull. Guess culture specific wedding habits could be in the raws while we're at it. They'd determine what exactly they're interested in, IE whether the wedding is held at a temple followed by a reception in the communal dining room or some other habits, what kind of guests they invite, whether they use rings or something else etc etc

Generally gives the player something optional to do

[Maggarg - Eater of chicke]

The problem is that most bastard nobility aren't very considerate, e.g "let them eat cake."

[SirHoneyBadger]

Well, we *are* talking about dwarfs here, insane nobles though they may be, and I like to think that dwarfs would atleast understand greed well enough to get that supplies can be limited, and that if something isn't available, it needs to be obtained first.

After all, it's not much of a status symbol if everyone has one.

Not that I don't want them making ridiculous demands, just not completely impossible ones that you have no ability whatsoever to satisfy.

[profit]

My nobles should demand magma baths.....
Because that's the only mandate that they are likely to have fullfilled.

actually my hammerer is getting pretty old in my fort... but that's because he was locked in his room in year 3 or 4 and has not seen outside it in maybe 40 years.  Its amazing how much more likely he is to survive an elf ambush if he cannot move from his 13 by 10 bedroom/dining room.

The rest of the nobles though... they live until I think it would be fun to make obsidian encased noble statues.

[Jack_Bread]

The problem is that most bastard nobility aren't very considerate, e.g "let them eat cake."

How can they when the cake is a lie? 

[SirHoneyBadger]

Which is another reason to *slightly* curb their severe annoyance factor: No real reason to have them in the game, if they're there *solely* to make the game more work and less entertainment (not that dipping them in molten lava isn't entertaining, it's just not really their intended use).

[perilisk]

Which is another reason to *slightly* curb their severe annoyance factor: No real reason to have them in the game, if they're there *solely* to make the game more work and less entertainment (not that dipping them in molten lava isn't entertaining, it's just not really their intended use).

Like alchemy, nobles are mainly annoying because they haven't all gotten useful features yet. I imagine that like Moods and goblin attacks, noble mandates will eventually be as much of an opportunity as a problem. As it stands, people tolerate useful nobles (ie, the dungeon keeper). Once nobles unlock access to special features like civ control, people will make more effort to satisfy their mandates.

But you're right, in that they should not so much mandate "give me a thing" as "do a job". If the resources for the mandate don't exist, it really isn't the crafter's fault. Maybe they should Hammer the caravan master instead...

[SirHoneyBadger]

Yeah, if a noble wants a fancy window, I'm happy to give him a fancy window.

Maybe nobles could, as a formula of their noble rank + years of experience, and maybe + some sort of charisma or leadership bonus, have a set value of goods that they would need to satisfy their demands?

Like, for instance, a lowly baron could demand a gem window with a value of 1500 minimum, whereas the king demands a 30000+ window. And then maybe they could specify certain features, like the window must be constructed of red gems, or must be fashioned from an alloy of copper, etc.

[Tack]

that sounds smart, agreed completely.

however, i'd also like, say if he has a racial discrimination, i.e. at war with kobolds, then he could demand something made out of kobold bones.