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[Neonivek]

Well Plate always had Chain under it for the most part... (Probably not as much as devoted chain)

but Plate's major disadvantage, which isn't all that present in Dwarf Fortress sadly, is that it was super expensive!

In fact so expensive that even if you were to carry all the loot you could... well... carry (Gold and Jewels), you were unlikely to ever pay off the armor. Even a Richman could be unable to buy a set.

As for its weight I heard differing tales... between two things
1) Platemail was so heavy if the wearer fell down... they would be unable to get back up
and
2) Knights were usually trained so that they could do pushups in platemail.

Of course to add Validity to the first one... Many people in Platemail were often, because their armor was near indestructable against most weapons, wrestled to the ground.

[bjlong]

Actually, a full set of plate armor usually went without any chain underneath. I agree, plate was expensive and time-consuming to build, but this should probably be covered in another thread. Most nobles who could go to war would go with a set of armor fitted to their liking. Otherwise, the armorers would make peicemeal plate and chain (which was called transitional armor) for the grunts, or the grunts would go unarmored.

Plate armor is actually not incredibly heavy--only slightly more than the gear a soldier lugs around IIRC. Demonstrations with modern people in plate armor jumping, falling down and getting back up, jogging, and more have been made--it is reasonable to assume that a warrior "caste" would be very comfortable in plate armor.

I could argue about the finer details of this, but that's not really the point of this topic--this topic should be about weapon damage.

Another few points to consider are how the wound might heal--for example, stab wounds were notorious for becoming nastily infected, if the wounded survived the initial stab. This was mostly because the wound couldn't be flushed out with antiseptic or whatever the term was at the time. Also, the term "infected" was used quite loosely, so it could have been also a complication rising from mixing fluids that weren't allowed to drain properly.

[Neonivek]

One problem with dealing with Blunt damage is that in many ways did shattering bones have an effect slashing and peircing weapons did not.

Sending splinters throughout your body of bone, Cartledge becoming loose, it could also burst viens. It could also cause nice Nervous damage by breaking the spine or moving the skull away from the spine... I need someone who knows more about impact caused injuries in this topic as I am not an expert.

Of course some Peircing weapons, the Epee is quite infamos for this where a shot to any vital organ means death and any stab caused bleeding, were just large enough that if pulled from the body they would cause unhealable damage without surgery (and even then...).

[Footkerchief]

^^^ Toady mentioned he had a list of countdown items labeled "Sick wounds" that cover things like compound fractures (broken bone protruding through skin).

[Neonivek]

^^^ Toady mentioned he had a list of countdown items labeled "Sick wounds" that cover things like compound fractures (broken bone protruding through skin).

Yeah but what about Shattering bones in it of itself? Breaking bones heals much more easily then shattering bones (which is easier with blunt weapons) which can cripple a person.

[Tormy]

Is there a historical precedent for wearing leather under chain/plate?  Leathor armor is pretty different from a cloth gambeson.

I don't... though to admit metalic Armor can get pretty cold... So I am pretty sure they would wear something under all that.

I've found some infos about this:
"Underneath the metal armor the knight would wear a padded garment known as an "aketon".

Aketon: A padded coat, usually quilted vertically, which was worn beneath mail to absorb blows, or on its own by ordinary soldiers.
+ Another padded coat:
Gambeson: A padded coat usually quilted vertically. The term generally refers to a coat worn over the armor rather than beneath it.

This is how the aketon looked like:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[SirHoneyBadger]

Even the best plate armour could sometimes be pierced by crossbow bolts (not much you can wear and fight in is going to resist 5000 lbf from the largest steel arbalests, let alone a ballista), and even English longbows could penetrate poorer quality plate. 

[Neonivek]

Even the best plate armour could sometimes be pierced by crossbow bolts (not much you can wear and fight in is going to resist 5000 lbf from the largest steel arbalests, let alone a ballista), and even English longbows could penetrate poorer quality plate. 

We established this already. We however stated that not only would it have to be a dirrect staight hit, but even then it is unlikely.

Also... Blocking a Ballista? Even assuming your armor did stop it (which I have no idea of the chances...) your probably simply going to be crushed! Then again your not likely to actually be hit by one in real life anyhow... Not so much in Dwarf Fortress (Then again... Dwarf Fortress is odd).

[Tormy]

Also... Blocking a Ballista? Even assuming your armor did stop it (which I have no idea of the chances...) your probably simply going to be crushed! Then again your not likely to actually be hit by one in real life anyhow... Not so much in Dwarf Fortress (Then again... Dwarf Fortress is odd).

It sounds unrealistic as a dwarf is blocking the ballista ammo, but what about huge creatures? Like a war troll who wears reinforced steel plates? Those could easily block the ballista ammo even.

[Tack]

or catch it.

but, what if wearing more armor also decreased speed *der*.

but also decreased dodge, for instance, a legendary wrestler could dodge an incoming catapult stone, you'd just have to run somwhere. If a ballista fired from far enough away, that too. also heavy weapons could be dodgeable.

but then you'd need two computations, reaction time *experience, age, mood, fatigue* and speed *attributes, age, armor*

so say an arrow came in, a dwarf in full plate could stand and hope it got deflected, a dwarf wearing nothing but leather could duck and hope it missed.

[CobaltKobold]

I belie'e that's already present in the high weight of armor encumbering you, and offset with armor user skill.

As for piercing/slashing/bludgeoning vs. maille, slashing has to break rings to get through, piercing merely has to bend one wider if it strikes right(and the rings are small enough), else it too must break them. Bludgeoning gets more-or-less transmitted through, though the structure of good old European 4-in-1 should help spread the force of the blow to a minor degree...(don't quote me on that.)

Third-hand and 'ery unreliably, weren't knights trained to climb walls in plate too?

[Tack]

yeah. but all chain mail was typical size.
we can assume that was because even the best of human craftsmen didn't have the dexterity to make them smaller, therefore ring size will just be with quality...

[CobaltKobold]

At least today, you make rings by winding your wire around a mandrel (read: metal rod) of the diameter of ring you want to create, and clipping or sawing them off the resultant spring. Whether you can make a closure isn't really dependent on your hands, since you can use two pairs of pliers- which seem to be incredibly ancient as tools go, so you could in theory get your ring size down quite small e'en with period stuff, at least with just butted ends.

From what I understand, the maille of yore was half prewelded rings, half riveted-in-place, though- so keeping them shut while welding or keeping the o'erlap still while they hammer in the rivet would be more difficult than just making the rings stay ends-together.

[Grek]

Attacks should be divided into multiple damages, each with their own statistics. This allows for morningstars and situtations where the helmet of the goblin manages to stop most of the blow to it's head but the spike of the morningstar goes through the eyehole and jabs out an eyeball. Later on, multiple attack types for stuff like swords and polearms where you can stab or slash with it.

Sample raws:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[ITEM_WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_AXE_BATTLE]
[NAME:battle axe:battle axes]
[WEIGHT:80]
[SKILL:AXE]
[TWO_HANDED:5]
[MINIMUM_SIZE:5]
[MATERIAL_SIZE:4]
[ATTACK:chop]
   [DAMAGE:blade:110] ;base damage
   [DEFLECT:25] ;chance to deflect, lower is better
   [PEIRCE:75] ;chance to peirce, high is better
   [STUCKIN:40] ;chance to get stuck in body
   [SPREAD:75] ;spread of wounds, more means less force over more area

[ITEM_WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_MORNINGSTAR]
[NAME:morningstar:morningstars]
[WEIGHT:50]
[SKILL:MACE]
[TWO_HANDED:4]
[MINIMUM_SIZE:4]
[MATERIAL_SIZE:3
[ATTACK:swing]
   [DAMAGE:bulk:100]
   [DEFLECT:15]
   [PEIRCE:30]
   [STUCKIN:10]
   [SPREAD:150]
   [DAMAGE:spike:20]
   [DEFLECT:80]
   [PEIRCE:80]
   [STUCKIN:40]
   [SPREAD:25]

[ITEM_ARMOR:ITEM_ARMOR_PLATEMAIL]
[NAME:plate mail:plate mail]
[PREPLURAL:suits of]
[WEIGHT:150]
[VALUE:100]
[ARMORDEFLECT:50] ;adds to weapon's deflect
[ARMORSPREAD:75] ;adds to weapon's spread
[ARMORDAMAGE:20] ;lowers weapon's damage
[ARMORPEIRCE:35] ;lowers weapon's peirce
[UBSTEP:1]
[LBSTEP:1]
[SHAPED]
[LAYER:ARMOR]
[COVERAGE:100]
[LAYER_SIZE:20]
[LAYER_PERMIT:50]
[MATERIAL_SIZE:9]
[HARD]
[METAL]

[Tack]

that'd work. however you still haven't imputted the ability to bend or damage armor.