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Author Topic: Fortress design screw-ups. ( was about pressure.)  (Read 4560 times)

Tcei

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Re: Fortress design screw-ups. ( was about pressure.)
« Reply #30 on: December 29, 2008, 12:54:53 pm »

I've had a fortress criss-crossing a chasm, by the end of the first year I had 38 named caveswallowmen. By the end of hte second year I had about 20 or so left and only lost 3 dwarves. They never could stand a chance against my carpenter/woodcutter. The best part about it was that I never had to recruit him! He'd just walk up to the offending bird-man and lop his head off then go about his business.

As far as disasters go, probably one of my more recent fortresses. I've been obsessed with creating obsidian towers by pumping in water/magma. It's also the firsttime I've ever experimented with pumps. Things didnt go so well and I almost drowned my fort so I save scummed. The second time around things were going ok untill the goblins showed up. I wanted to get rid of them so I dug under the  wall and was waiting on my military to get their slow arses down and out of the tunnel when the goblins crept in and slaughtered everyone .. ::)
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Retales

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Re: Fortress design screw-ups. ( was about pressure.)
« Reply #31 on: December 29, 2008, 12:56:52 pm »

One screw-up that comes to mind wasn't actually about design. My fortress was built under a twin-peaked mountain. A part of the fort was nearing the top of the other peak, and I decided I must get rid of the 5 or so topmost levels of the peak (no room for constructions, and my desire for demolition). So I decided to collapse the top of the mountain to get rid of it quickly.

As usual in DF, you learn things the hard way. I thought the top would just collapse into a layer of rocks on top of my fort. Little did I know the falling stone will tumble down and crash several levels INTO the fortress below it. Several deaths and injuries, destroyed infrastructure and stranded dwarves. I did manage to recover from the accident, but I lost quite a few important dwarves right there.
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GenericOverusedName

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Re: Fortress design screw-ups. ( was about pressure.)
« Reply #32 on: December 29, 2008, 04:47:38 pm »

I've been attempting to re-route a cave river to fit my needs. It goes down a waterfall and into a channel (surrounded by walls), ending as close to the map edge as possible. I let loose the river, and the channel fills as I expected. Then it fills to the height of the wall. Now, because I can't build all the way to the end of the map, I have a bit of a gap. I figured the excess water would just flow off the edge just fine...

Luckily, the majority of my fort is above the valley. Whoops.
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Eagle

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Re: Fortress design screw-ups. ( was about pressure.)
« Reply #33 on: December 30, 2008, 07:57:11 pm »

Similar to the exploding fountain one; i was digging channels for irrigation, got those done, decided to extend them and provide drinking water to the bedroom/dining/food preparation areas. I designated the digging, then went to supervise the newly irrigated fields. Next thing i know, all the dwarfs in the bedrooms are dead, and everyone eating or cooking is severely injured; what i had thought would create a small pool in the middle of my hall actually shot skeletal carp all over the area where about 50 dwarfs were (out of like 60). Needless to say, all of them died, leaving me with 6 healthy dwarfs (apparently, a one armed, blind peasant wrestled the carp to death while enraged then died. He got a royal tomb with 5 platnium statues and artifacts all over it). I managed to rebuild, then sicced my new military (bolstered by immigrants) on the carp, killing all of them in the river. Cut to a year later, im back down to 3 dwarfs, one missing both arms, the others missing at least a hand, and a skeletal giant eagle is terrorizing the fort. This thing had killed AT LEAST 20 dwarves, mostly straglers that had just survived a massive seige, and it wouldnt leave, constantly hovering around the entrance. i just finally had my peasants rush it, and one of them took its head off with a pick, then bled to death.

Also, never have a chasm near an undefended part of your fortress; i had about 40 named creatures flying in the chasm by the end of the second year.

Sorry for the long post.

GenericOverusedName

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Re: Fortress design screw-ups. ( was about pressure.)
« Reply #34 on: December 30, 2008, 09:00:50 pm »

Similar to the exploding fountain one; i was digging channels for irrigation, got those done, decided to extend them and provide drinking water to the bedroom/dining/food preparation areas. I designated the digging, then went to supervise the newly irrigated fields. Next thing i know, all the dwarfs in the bedrooms are dead, and everyone eating or cooking is severely injured; what i had thought would create a small pool in the middle of my hall actually shot skeletal carp all over the area where about 50 dwarfs were (out of like 60). Needless to say, all of them died, leaving me with 6 healthy dwarfs (apparently, a one armed, blind peasant wrestled the carp to death while enraged then died. He got a royal tomb with 5 platnium statues and artifacts all over it). I managed to rebuild, then sicced my new military (bolstered by immigrants) on the carp, killing all of them in the river. Cut to a year later, im back down to 3 dwarfs, one missing both arms, the others missing at least a hand, and a skeletal giant eagle is terrorizing the fort. This thing had killed AT LEAST 20 dwarves, mostly straglers that had just survived a massive seige, and it wouldnt leave, constantly hovering around the entrance. i just finally had my peasants rush it, and one of them took its head off with a pick, then bled to death.

Also, never have a chasm near an undefended part of your fortress; i had about 40 named creatures flying in the chasm by the end of the second year.

Sorry for the long post.

And THAT's why you put bars/grates in your water systems!

With my waterfall dealy, all the nasty cave-river creatures just explode upon hitting the bottom of it, so I don't have to worry much about them.
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Duke 2.0

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Re: Fortress design screw-ups. ( was about pressure.)
« Reply #35 on: December 30, 2008, 09:06:01 pm »


 My major screw-ups revolve around even and odd numbers.

 Alright, I'll put a statue he- Wait, NOOOOOOOO! 30x30!? Gah!

 Damn pyramid.
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Agent_Irons

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Re: Fortress design screw-ups. ( was about pressure.)
« Reply #36 on: December 30, 2008, 09:53:23 pm »


 My major screw-ups revolve around even and odd numbers.

 Alright, I'll put a statue he- Wait, NOOOOOOOO! 30x30!? Gah!

 Damn pyramid.
Blocking off important things?

Waterfalls. They are icky. Tricky to do if you don't have aquifers. I tried to pump my rain-collecting cistern(worked fine, fed a well, went to most of the ponds on the map. Tropical climate what what.) into a cistern above my meeting hall. I had hatch covers, grates, pumps. It was all set up perfectly. Except as my waterfall circulated, half that water was replaced by gravityfed murky pool water, and half was recirculated water. Only so many times you can add water to a system before it overflows. Into my dining room. Luckily I noticed and killed the power in time. Eventually I reused the equipments and some of the architecture for an obsidian farm. So water comes down two levels, either enters a well, or is pumped up two levels above my dining room, then falls down two levels through a pipe that goes through my food stockpile, then flows across the map to make obsidian. All for perfectly logical reasons. At the time.
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Vincent

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Re: Fortress design screw-ups. ( was about pressure.)
« Reply #37 on: December 31, 2008, 03:20:56 am »

In my latest fortress, I took it upon myself to dig out the walls of the chasm, leaving a bunch of walkways that crisscross through the labyrintine mine.

Suprisingly, none of my dorfs have meen attacked by ratmen/batmen/troglodytes (Although I did have to kill a room of antmen to get at the gold in there).

However, my downfall was that I got greedy and went for a few gems in a room sticking out of the chasm.

GCS AMBUSH

Lost two of my miner dorfs (including my legendary miner/engineer) and now have two mortally wounded wrestlers. The GCS fell to my swordsdorf and his entourage of wrestler recruits, though.

CHASMS ARE FUN.
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Kiwanja

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Re: Damn water pressure
« Reply #38 on: January 01, 2009, 01:52:55 pm »

Ah, water pressure. At least you didn't flood half the map and have to wall off half your fortress in order to stop your main entrance flooding.

Lol, on one of my forts (it is looooong gone to the magma now) I was digging out my defensive entrance (I always build a starting entrance, then after a while, after my fort is up and running I seal it off after building a main, defensive entrance), and I managed to ignore a warning about damp stone. Needless to say, the water flooded out my entrance to be dug, flooding the outside, which forced me to wall off my "service entrance". So I had to wait for the little underground pond to finish draining (it was higher up on the mountain than my starting entrance).
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Maggarg - Eater of chicke

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Re: Fortress design screw-ups. ( was about pressure.)
« Reply #39 on: January 02, 2009, 05:03:33 pm »

I managed to make a waterfall machine.
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Cheshire Cat

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Re: Fortress design screw-ups. ( was about pressure.)
« Reply #40 on: January 03, 2009, 07:47:32 am »

my first ever learning fortress had a magma pipe nearby. i had read the wiki so i knew about water pressure, and i thought the same would apply to magma. so i had a destroy fortress passage on the bottom z level that led from my main stairway all the way to the bottom of the magma pipe. i was so disappointed when i mined it out.

all my fortresses since save one have been on a chasm, and i sortof considered it important for the sake of difficulty, as my one haunted volcano had only zombie hairy marmots to fight. im actually unhappy at how chasms run out of things to kill so quickly.

by far the most exciting was my second ever fort. i wanted everything a fort can possibly have, so i kept increasing the area with the site finder till i got one. it was an untamed wilds/terrifying mountain/sqamp, with a complete chasm, the end of which was exposed to the surface, brook, cave river, two magma pipes, cave pond, HFS and bottomless pit. and it was huge.

the chasm critters were incredibly thick all over the surface. there were mountain cavefulls of troglodytes and ratmen, and the swamps were filled wolves, slug and snail men. i had to make a map long passage to let the migrants in, otherwise they tried to trek the surface and three quarters would die, and i would have to spend ages on pause trying to find and forbid every last bit of clothing on my giant map or lose my entire fort. and dont even talk to me about the giant olm that killed 14 hapless dwarves before i FINALLY got it with a simple rockfall trap.

that fort was awesome. even had 2 artifact weapons and 3 artifact armors. too bad the fps couldnt survive more then 40 dwarves before it became unplayable, luckily the critters kept the numbers down for quite a while.

and to mr waterfall man, i once moved a cave river 30 z levels up to the surface using clusters of 3 pumps per z level. it all went into a huge tank, where at a few lever pulls it could create a waterfall over my entrance, or seal my main entrance hall, open near bottomless channels along each side of the path, and flush anything present with 10 z levels of water into the channels. surprisingly goblins would actually survive somehow, and ended up fighting off chasm critters riled by the water draining into their home.

 the water from the giant tank also ran along three giant aqueducts and waterfalled into a series of fast flowing moats that drained through my whole fortress, through a tower cap plantation, through a huge multi z level artificial cave, and back into the chasm at multiple points. i threw a cat into it to see what would happen and after ages it popped out of the waterfall in the tower cap farm. a puppy ended up in the chasm.

what i learnt was - flowing water eats fps a lot. have levers that cotrol your system many many z levels above any possible water. im talking a set of control rooms with a well drained channel around them in the peak of your highest mountain. put grates over everything linking to chasms, ponds and rivers, because batmen and frogmen and a random goblin who dodged into the moat coming out the well in your dining room sucks. and yeah, did i mention having levers attached to any relevant floodgate, door or power system, and having the levers far enough out of reach that the flood biblical book of genesis would not touch it?

final thing - quadruple check everything before you turn your masterwork on, and be very careful where you channel. like, don't dig into the very very high pressure water pipe which is under the floor next to your magma forges, gems, adamantium supply, weapons/armor piles and above the main dining rooms, which is what ended my fort. i had 210 dwarfs. at least it was spectacular.
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GenericOverusedName

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Re: Fortress design screw-ups. ( was about pressure.)
« Reply #41 on: January 03, 2009, 11:17:24 am »

Not necessarily a design screw up, but still a screwup none the less.

I had found a nice spot on the world map, with magma, running water, and other fun goodies. Unfortunately, I didn't have it set to show caves on embark.

So of course, when the game loads up everyone is within 10 tiles or so of a cave entrance. The local residents weren't pleased, especially the skeletal dragon...

Shortest fortress ever!
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Eagle

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Re: Fortress design screw-ups. ( was about pressure.)
« Reply #42 on: January 03, 2009, 12:51:11 pm »

my first ever learning fortress had a magma pipe nearby. i had read the wiki so i knew about water pressure, and i thought the same would apply to magma. so i had a destroy fortress passage on the bottom z level that led from my main stairway all the way to the bottom of the magma pipe. i was so disappointed when i mined it out.

all my fortresses since save one have been on a chasm, and i sortof considered it important for the sake of difficulty, as my one haunted volcano had only zombie hairy marmots to fight. im actually unhappy at how chasms run out of things to kill so quickly.

by far the most exciting was my second ever fort. i wanted everything a fort can possibly have, so i kept increasing the area with the site finder till i got one. it was an untamed wilds/terrifying mountain/sqamp, with a complete chasm, the end of which was exposed to the surface, brook, cave river, two magma pipes, cave pond, HFS and bottomless pit. and it was huge.

the chasm critters were incredibly thick all over the surface. there were mountain cavefulls of troglodytes and ratmen, and the swamps were filled wolves, slug and snail men. i had to make a map long passage to let the migrants in, otherwise they tried to trek the surface and three quarters would die, and i would have to spend ages on pause trying to find and forbid every last bit of clothing on my giant map or lose my entire fort. and dont even talk to me about the giant olm that killed 14 hapless dwarves before i FINALLY got it with a simple rockfall trap.

that fort was awesome. even had 2 artifact weapons and 3 artifact armors. too bad the fps couldnt survive more then 40 dwarves before it became unplayable, luckily the critters kept the numbers down for quite a while.

and to mr waterfall man, i once moved a cave river 30 z levels up to the surface using clusters of 3 pumps per z level. it all went into a huge tank, where at a few lever pulls it could create a waterfall over my entrance, or seal my main entrance hall, open near bottomless channels along each side of the path, and flush anything present with 10 z levels of water into the channels. surprisingly goblins would actually survive somehow, and ended up fighting off chasm critters riled by the water draining into their home.

 the water from the giant tank also ran along three giant aqueducts and waterfalled into a series of fast flowing moats that drained through my whole fortress, through a tower cap plantation, through a huge multi z level artificial cave, and back into the chasm at multiple points. i threw a cat into it to see what would happen and after ages it popped out of the waterfall in the tower cap farm. a puppy ended up in the chasm.

what i learnt was - flowing water eats fps a lot. have levers that cotrol your system many many z levels above any possible water. im talking a set of control rooms with a well drained channel around them in the peak of your highest mountain. put grates over everything linking to chasms, ponds and rivers, because batmen and frogmen and a random goblin who dodged into the moat coming out the well in your dining room sucks. and yeah, did i mention having levers attached to any relevant floodgate, door or power system, and having the levers far enough out of reach that the flood biblical book of genesis would not touch it?

final thing - quadruple check everything before you turn your masterwork on, and be very careful where you channel. like, don't dig into the very very high pressure water pipe which is under the floor next to your magma forges, gems, adamantium supply, weapons/armor piles and above the main dining rooms, which is what ended my fort. i had 210 dwarfs. at least it was spectacular.

Damn, you got a good allocation of stuff, i rarely get a usable magma pipe on the same map as a river or chasm.

Not necessarily a design screw up, but still a screwup none the less.

I had found a nice spot on the world map, with magma, running water, and other fun goodies. Unfortunately, I didn't have it set to show caves on embark.

So of course, when the game loads up everyone is within 10 tiles or so of a cave entrance. The local residents weren't pleased, especially the skeletal dragon...

Shortest fortress ever!

Hehe, reminds me of this one.
http://mkv25.net/dfma/movie-701-shortestfortever
They spawned on a volcano..that was in a bottomless pit.

Fist_Of_Armok

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Re: Fortress design screw-ups. ( was about pressure.)
« Reply #43 on: January 03, 2009, 11:11:16 pm »



Hehe, reminds me of this one.
http://mkv25.net/dfma/movie-701-shortestfortever
They spawned on a volcano..that was in a bottomless pit.
[/quote]

I bet if they dug down, and made a larger area, they could have survived at least a while.

Wish they had.
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CobaltKobold

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Re: Fortress design screw-ups. ( was about pressure.)
« Reply #44 on: January 05, 2009, 09:54:20 am »

Magma pipes seemed so tame when in normal maps.

Then I tried embarking on them in these glacial settings.

I learned a few things. I didn't learn a few other things.

I [e'entually] learned: multiple-obsidian cap-le'els means don't build your magma stuff on the lower le'els of it unless you're quick and know how workshops block- the pipe can fill them back in.

Dwarfs on fire can melt your stairwells and surrounding ice, potentially stranding sur'i'ors from the picks needed to get themsel'es out. (And, interestingly, create "open space" squares that ha'e obsidian wall squares a z below)

One dwarf doing e'erything he needs will actually require little and skill up quickly.

If you already ha'e a sort of mega-grate (channels e'ery three rows for workshops) on your magma that happens to be leaking, stationing your squad there lets them take fire imps out easily. Also, a war dog usually is worth about one fire imp.

Ca'e ins can create magma mist.
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