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[3]

Fireangel? The only games I've won were with Fireangel. The effective use of the skill is to allow you to take on more enemies at once and take better positions (taking full advantage of fire points near walls and such). Also, rocket jump.

The road to Cateye is an exceptionally powerful build, but I do agree, with Intuition 2 under your belt the only real use of Cateye itself is figuring out where walls are.

[beorn080]

The problem with Cateye is that if you go Int2 instead of it, you get almost the exact same thing just across the whole level, minus blocked traits plus levers identified. Doesn't really seem that impressive at that point.

Not quite sure how Fireangel could be saved. Maybe make the blasts not destroy items as well as immunity to blast damage. Though that would make those KheKheKhe levels pretty easy.

[Blaze]

Make fireangel allow you to walk over lava (And maybe acid). Surviving the napalm explosion won't help you if you're stuck in the lava it leaves behind.

[beorn080]

Combine Cateye with Int2. One level of Intuition, which would show powerups and levers, then give Cateye the see all enemies as dots, +2 sight range, and identify levers. The description does say that you can almost see through walls after all.

[Gunner-Chan]

I would love it if fireangel became viable. I am a pyromaniac after all. :3

[Duke 2.0]

 As people have said about Cateye, the road there is stronger than the master trait itself. Best not take it and not block too many other traits.

 Fireangel allows you to use the rocket launcher and barrels with impunity as well as avoid some shots of late-game enemies, but note that fireangel makes rocketjump worthless. You get no knockback, thus no rocketjump. And if you take Badass you are further reduced. And if you wear boots expect another tile lost.

 So yeah, balancing. The Ammochain problem won't be solved 'till all the traits have had some tweaking.

[3]

I would love it if fireangel became viable. I am a pyromaniac after all. :3

If Fireangel's not viable, then what are you using?

We've got 7 master traits at the moment. One of those is a pure melee trait, another is a semi-melee trait, and neither are therefore very useful throughout the unrestricted game. One of those is rapid-fire only (and we've already gone over how powerful it is), one is shotgun only, one is pistol only.

That gives you two general traits, both of which appear to be considered to be underpowered.

Are all builds that use master traits primarily built on a single weapon type? Really? If that's the case (and I don't see why it shouldn't be, in all consideration), then yes, all of the traits could do with some rethinking, not just the "weak" ones. Putting too much emphasis on single weapon types is a direct route to encouraging "cookie-cutter" (as they were once/are known) builds, and it stifles player creativity.

[Gunner-Chan]

I usually use Ammochain or Gun kata, unless my game looks like it will be shotgun heavy in which case I go without master traits.

Say what you will but my only wins have been master traitless due to a combination of bad luck and carelessness.

[beorn080]

So, I'm trying let again for an ammochain game, on Ao100 so I get to really go deep, and on lvl 2 I spawn next to the blaster. Infinite ammo pistol on an attempted infinite ammo chaingun game. Irony?

[JoshuaFH]

Fireangel? I heard that makes you immune to archviles, since their only attack is an explosion-based one. I think I remember reading that from a angel of pacifist run, where the player killed archviles just by standing next to them as they tried to attack them futiley.

[Blaze]

Wait, if you're immune to that kind of damage, wouldn't you be immune to mancubi, revenants, hell knights, barons of hell, cacodemons, and the cyberdemon too?

[3]

Only if you don't take a direct hit. You can sidestep Archvile attacks, but you'll still get hit by the splash, and that's where Fireangel kicks in.

[Blaze]

But MFa blocks DM, and Archvile attacks are guaranteed a hit. So how does that work?

Edit: Nvm, It's only a guaranteed hit BECAUSE of the splash, my bad.

[3]

I just told you. You can sidestep them.

Their attack is suprisingly easy to dodge, though it is normally a moot point since you WILL be caught in the splash radius - unless you have Fireangel.

[deadlycairn]

Ninja'd
Not quite. You're immune to the splash, but a direct hit from any of those enemies would damage you.
And how are you meant to kill the cyberdemon on a Pacifist run?