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After experimenting with the options, how is 40d13? Problems only count if the defaults don't work.

Faster than 40d, no problems
- 42 (26.1%)
Faster than 40d, problems
- 72 (44.7%)
No slower than 40d, no problems
- 14 (8.7%)
No slower than 40d, problems
- 16 (9.9%)
Slower than 40d, no problems
- 2 (1.2%)
Slower than 40d, problems
- 3 (1.9%)
Doesn't work (please explain)
- 12 (7.5%)

Total Members Voted: 160


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Author Topic: FotF: Help test the output code for the next version of DF (40d13)  (Read 373318 times)

Soralin

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Re: Future of the fort: Help test the output code for the next version of DF
« Reply #405 on: December 30, 2008, 09:13:12 am »

I tried out 40d5, and ran into a major bug, it seems the gfps is dependent on the fps cap, so that if you put in a high fps cap, it ends up updating the screen very slowly.

For example, for testing this, I set the fps cap to 10000, and left the gfps cap at 50.  When the game is paused, it actually runs at around 10000 fps, and the graphical updating is fine.  But when I unpause it, and the fps drops down to around 40something, the graphical updates drop way way down.  I timed it, and it's updating the screen about once every 4-5 seconds, it seems to actually be running at the fps it says it is, dwarves jump around during that time, but it's only updating the screen every 5 seconds or so.  I also found, that when I was designating, the fps would drop down to about 125, and there would be a similar, but smaller delay, updating the screen about once every second and a little bit.

After that, I dropped the fps cap down, I set it at 1000, and the delays dropped by about an order of magnitude, when paused, it was as smooth as ever, but unpaused, at about 40+ fps again, it was still very jerky, only updating the screen at about 5fps or something.  Dropping the fps cap down to 100 nearly solves the problem, running at 30fps, it's still not updating the screen as smoothly as it does in 40d.

So something got mixed up somewhere, it seems to only update the screen at the full amount when it's running at the fps cap, if it's running slower then that, then it updates the screen less frequently then gfps says it should.  And how slow it is on updating the screen is based on the ratio between the current fps and the fps cap.

There's some strange relationship going on between the fps cap, the gfps cap, and the current fps.  If I set my gfps cap to 500, and my fps cap to 10000, I get about the same effect that I do with my gfps cap at 50 and my fps cap at 1000 (except the intro movies play at about 20fps, and paused drops down to about 2500fps, unpaused fps remains about the same)  If I set the fps cap to 100 while the gfps cap is at 500, it drops down to around 13-20fps, the same as the movie, so the movie is probably running slow in the earlier one, because it's capped at 100 fps, which makes the actual gfps high, and in the rest of the game the gfps is much lower then it's supposed to be.

So it looks like there's something setting the gfps wrongly, setting it based on the current fps, and the fps cap and gfps cap settings.

Other then that, my FPS improved a good amount:

On a map I've been playing with 80some dwarves I think, on a 3x15 map (I wanted a deep enough chunk of ocean to build some stuff in and got carried away)

40d with partial print on, 0:
running: 32-34ish fps
paused: 700-800ish fps
escape menu: 2000ish fps

40d with partial print off:
running: 23-25ish fps
paused: 370ish fps

40d5 with partial print on, 0:
running: 40-42ish fps
paused: 10000! fps, limited by the cap
escape menu: 2000ish fps

40d5 with partial print off:
running: 40-44ish fps
paused: 10000! fps, limited by cap
escape menu: 2500ish fps

I had another fortress that I tested, with over 200 dwarves, and lots of CPU eating things, on a 6x6 map, and it showed an improvement from around 5fps to around 6fps. :)

When it's paused and only doing graphical stuff, the sky's the limit it seems, oddly enough when it's on the escape menu it runs slower then paused and looking at the map.  Also unusual, in 40d, having partial print on speeds things up, whereas in 40d5, having partial print on slows things down slightly.  It gives a nice fps boost on this oversized map, an extra 10fps, from 33->43 or so.  Also something nice for people still using crts, 40d5 runs dwarf fortress at my current refresh rate, 40d always ran it at 60hz.  And I didn't have any flickering with partial print on or off with either version.

Oh yeah, my computer:
Athlon 64, running at about 2.2Ghz, Radeon 3850 AGP card, catalyst 8.10 AGP hotfix drivers.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2008, 09:28:56 am by Soralin »
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Soralin

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Re: Future of the fort: Help test the output code for the next version of DF
« Reply #406 on: December 30, 2008, 09:45:10 am »

Bleh, scratch all of those fps numbers, I think those are just an artifact of the gfps problem I'm having, I did some more testing, and with a 100fps cap and 50gfps under 40d5, the fps drops down to 30-32fps or so.  And if I test 40d with 100fps cap and 1gfps, it gets around 37-40fps, (and it updates faster then the 10000/50 run in 40d5 still)  So the fps numbers I'm getting seem to be largely affected by that.

Edit: update, I had to go back and do some testing, 40d4 also has this same problem, 40d2 does not, oddly enough 40d3 seems to have it as well, but the slowdown isn't as bad (probably because it seems to be capped at 1000fps, rather then 10000 due to that gfps caps thing, it displays similar behavior to the 1000fps cap setting with d4 or d5).  So it looks like something between 40d2 and 40d3 did it.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2008, 10:01:50 am by Soralin »
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Baughn

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Re: Future of the fort: Help test the output code for the next version of DF
« Reply #407 on: December 30, 2008, 09:59:27 am »

The gfps problem is real, however, and has an odd tendency to slow the game down - it ends up using less than 100% of the cpu. Sometimes much less.

I've figured it out and sent a patch off to toady; meanwhile, could you check how much of your CPU is actually in use in 40d5? Check task manager.
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Soralin

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Re: Future of the fort: Help test the output code for the next version of DF
« Reply #408 on: December 30, 2008, 10:16:00 am »

at 10000fps and 50gfps caps:

40d5, partial printing off, uses up around 60% or so and runs around 10000 fps, unpaused, it runs at around 40fps, and takes up 97-99%, but the graphical updating is very slow (when unpaused, paused graphical updating is fine).

40d5 with partial printing on, at 0, uses about 55-60%, and runs around 10000fps, unpaused, it uses 97-99, and runs around 40fps, but the graphical updating is very slow (when unpaused, paused graphical updating is fine).

40d under the same settings with partial printing off,  paused, uses up around 50% and runs around 500fps, unpaused it uses about 97-99% and runs around 30fps.

40d with partial print on, at 0, uses up around 20% and runs around 900fps paused, unpaused it uses about 97-99% and runs around 34fps.

It seems to be using all of the CPU that it can when it's unpaused.  And the game itself doesn't actually seem to be running slower(in fact it seems to be moving a little faster since it isn't spending time updating the screen as much), dwarves move around and do things, it just updates their position to the screen rarely.  Also, this slowdown doesn't seem to affect the input at all.  It may take 5 seconds to update the frame under those settings, but if I hit the spacebar, it'll pause immediately and update the screen, so that if I tap the spacebar a bunch, it'll update the screen on every pause, and I can get a faster updating to the screen that way.

Oh, looks like I also ended up editing my last post after you made your post, something in 40d2->40d3 seems to do it, 40d2 also has paused fps around 800 rather then 10000.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2008, 10:25:36 am by Soralin »
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ps0705

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Re: Future of the fort: Help test the output code for the next version of DF
« Reply #409 on: December 30, 2008, 10:46:32 am »

Haven't noticed much difference with the 40d upgrades (Didn't have any big enough forts to go below 100 fps), However with 40d5 I'm getting drops down to 70 fps just moments after embarking. On 40d2 I had a fortress with 70 dwarves still at 100 fps (unfortunately I don't have this fortress anymore >.<). This is my first time posting regarding this, so forgive me for not knowing what more to say @_@
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Baughn

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Re: Future of the fort: Help test the output code for the next version of DF
« Reply #410 on: December 30, 2008, 10:53:04 am »

Mm, quite.

Would you mind checking the CPU use on that? As mentioned above, there's a timer bug in 40d3-5 that can cause that behaviour.
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Baughn

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Re: Future of the fort: Help test the output code for the next version of DF
« Reply #411 on: December 30, 2008, 11:05:12 am »

Hm. I guess I can't use framebuffers; they're only supported on GPUs that are so new, they don't need them. -_-;
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Baughn

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Re: Future of the fort: Help test the output code for the next version of DF
« Reply #412 on: December 30, 2008, 12:07:26 pm »

Including mine. Heh.

If I GLEW works properly on OS X (check in a moment), I'll just add the code path anyway. It can't hurt.

EDIT: It works, and from some further research, it turns out that the cards that support framebuffer objects (nvidia 6000-series and up, ati cards released at similar time) are also mostly the ones that fail with the current partial-printing scheme (single buffering), so it's definitely worth a try.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2008, 01:16:38 pm by Baughn »
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Baughn

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Re: Future of the fort: Help test the output code for the next version of DF
« Reply #413 on: December 30, 2008, 12:34:21 pm »

Who voted for "doesn't work"?

I'm looking through the comments, but I don't see any since d5 was released that say it doesn't work at all, so..?
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Savok

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Re: Future of the fort: Help test the output code for the next version of DF
« Reply #414 on: December 30, 2008, 01:20:37 pm »

I voted for "slower than 40d, problems."
My monitor is running at 60Hz.
All tests are done with an 8x10 region genned in 40d with a bunch of features.
Partial print off. Turning partial print:2 on causes wacky flickering.

40d, 9999fps, 20gfps:
thousands of menu fps, paused fps=~160. Normal.
20 paused gfps, due to the limit
~25fps due to major jerkiness, as described in this post.
~1gfps, which is the major jerkiness

40d5, 9999fps, 20gfps:
~1600 paused fps
~1 paused gfps, wacky.
~5fps due to major jerkiness, as described in that post.
~0.3gfps, which is the major jerkiness

40d5, 200fps, 30gfps:
166 paused fps
30 paused gfps
~20fps due to major jerkiness, as described in that post.
~1.5gfps, which is the major jerkiness

40d5, 100fps, 60gfps:
82.5 paused fps
60 paused gfps
~30fps due to major jerkiness, as described in that post.
~2gfps, which is the major jerkiness
« Last Edit: December 30, 2008, 05:50:45 pm by Savok »
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namuol

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Re: Future of the fort: Help test the output code for the next version of DF
« Reply #415 on: December 30, 2008, 03:12:30 pm »

Who voted for "doesn't work"?

I'm looking through the comments, but I don't see any since d5 was released that say it doesn't work at all, so..?

I can speak for one of those votes.
See http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=28841.msg376898#msg376898

The linux version of d5 Segfaults before the game window/fullscreen ever appears when partial print is on, but it runs fine with partial print off (for me, anyway).

Some extra info:
Hardware: Macbook, first generation core duo
Video: Intel Corporation Mobile 945GM/GMS, 943/940GML Express Integrated Graphics Controller (rev 03)

Software:
Ubuntu 8.10 running kernel 2.6.27-9-generic

(PS. I made sure to run df with the included "df" shell script so I know it's using the bundled libraries)
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Baughn

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Re: Future of the fort: Help test the output code for the next version of DF
« Reply #416 on: December 30, 2008, 03:47:00 pm »

It's very strange that partial-printing would cause a *segfault*, of all things. Since you're on linux.. would you mind messaging me in #bay12games (my nick's just Baughn), and we can figure this out?


Un a wholly unrelated note, I've gotten partial-printing to work with off-screen rendering via framebuffer objects. For those of you whose GPUs and drivers are new enough to support this (you'll really want to upgrade those drivers), this should make partial printing Just Work(tm).
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Rivaryn

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Re: Future of the fort: Help test the output code for the next version of DF
« Reply #417 on: December 30, 2008, 03:55:26 pm »

Faster than 40d, no problems (so far *cough*)

I posted about 40d4 not working in a separate thread, so I figured since I had issues, I should test the next version.  I mentioned in my other thread about the faster framerates.  And so far, I haven't had any issues (I put partial print on and it still works).

Specs: WinXP, SP3, AMD Turion64X2, ATI Radeon XPress (9000 i think???), Catalyst 8.something (Dec '08)

-Riv
« Last Edit: December 30, 2008, 03:57:29 pm by Rivaryn »
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Savok

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Re: Future of the fort: Help test the output code for the next version of DF
« Reply #418 on: December 30, 2008, 05:53:53 pm »

Do you have any idea what's causing this? I'd really like to be able to play DF.
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Razordw

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Re: Future of the fort: Help test the output code for the next version of DF
« Reply #419 on: December 30, 2008, 05:59:03 pm »

Voted the 40d slower with problems. So with or without Partial Printing on I get major jerkiness/responsiveness from 40d5, worse with PP on. Suspect it's the gfps problems mentioned already since when I first ran it, GFPS was set to 5 and fps to 200, but the graphics were defeintely 1fps or less (Dwarves were moving vast distances in a given screen refresh). When I boosted gfps to 25 it smoothed things out but it was still jerky in behavior. Oh and the problems seem worse with Partial Printing turned on, in fact it started messing up on the redraw with Yes:2 but seems to work fine with 0, but the responsiveness of df became much worse with PP on; seemed to take a couple seconds for it to register a single key stroke at the main menu. Further it seems it _could_ be running 5 fps slower the 40d but that's not 100% reliable.
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