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[nordo]

How about giant trees, with big underground roots that have to be chopped through, and all kinds of giant spiders and centipedes living therein.  Faeries could battle you if you hurt their tree too badly, the elves would absolutely shit.  The rewards would be tons of lumber, and the most amazing pancake syrup in the world.

Other living trees could be great, ents could find a place protecting their forests.  In jungles, carnivorous plants could spit poison at encroaching wood cutters.

Any other vegetation ideas?  Rapidly spreading colonies of evil cave mold maybe (think alpha centurai)?

[Warlord255]

Large trees for elf cities has been suggested many, many times.

[SirHoneyBadger]

I *think* fossilized wood is already in the game. If so then occasionally you might run into titanic fossilized trees, or even forests, which might be haunted by some truly ancient ghosts.

'Carnivorous plants' is an area that has possibilities. Elves might use them in place of dogs as guard-beasts. Giant venus flytraps, blood-thirsty rose bushes, and "willow-men" might all be common features in elven lands. Treants, ofcourse, are a given.

Things like giant carnivorous slime molds and demonic black fungi should definitely find a place in the game.

Cacti-creatures living in the desert would be a fun challenge. "Cactus man" seems like a given, and there might exist packs of vampiric tumbleweeds.  Other cacti (Sarlacc, anyone?) might function like a trap, waiting patiently for a tasty meal to come close enough to impale on it's thousands of spines, like the leafy desert version of a kraken.

[PTTG??]

+ 5 points for fitting the theme of DF perfectly.
+ 3 points for well-written post.
- 3 points for idea repetition.
- 2 points because Ents already exist, though they never show up anywhere in-game.
+ 1 point for referencing Alpha Centauri.

4 points! Much better than the last "gun" suggestion, which had over 200 negative points. All in all, a good suggestion, but it has come up before.

[Granite26]

+ 5 points for fitting the theme of DF perfectly.
+ 3 points for well-written post.
- 3 points for idea repetition.
- 2 points because Ents already exist, though they never show up anywhere in-game.
+ 1 point for referencing Alpha Centauri.

4 points! Much better than the last "gun" suggestion, which had over 200 negative points. All in all, a good suggestion, but it has come up before.

-4 for poor reading comprehension

ents could find a place protecting their forests

says we could PUT them there, not create them...

[Variance]

I *think* fossilized wood is already in the game. If so then occasionally you might run into titanic fossilized trees, or even forests, which might be haunted by some truly ancient ghosts.

Problem is, there's no way to have such complex shapes as trees made out of petrified wood, which counts as a stone, that would automatically generate in worldgen.

[Silverionmox]

I *think* fossilized wood is already in the game. If so then occasionally you might run into titanic fossilized trees, or even forests, which might be haunted by some truly ancient ghosts.

Problem is, there's no way to have such complex shapes as trees made out of petrified wood, which counts as a stone, that would automatically generate in worldgen.

Why not? At this point non-layer mineral patches, magma pipes, chasms etc. are always the same predefined shape. I don't see why there couldn't be a few predefined stone forest shapes.
Of course randomized shapes of mineral patches will eventually be implemented. And there's no reason why tree shapes can't be randomly generated; generating tree-like shapes is a typical example of something a simple fractal algoritm can do.

[Pilsu]

I don't think you actually know what petrified wood is

[Variance]

Why not? At this point non-layer mineral patches, magma pipes, chasms etc. are always the same predefined shape. I don't see why there couldn't be a few predefined stone forest shapes.
Of course randomized shapes of mineral patches will eventually be implemented. And there's no reason why tree shapes can't be randomly generated; generating tree-like shapes is a typical example of something a simple fractal algoritm can do.

That's true; I'm just not sure if the current code requirements to generate stone patches and veins, as well as magma pipes, can work for anything much more complicated, such as a fractal algorithm, that requires branching: all of the current shapes generated are rough circles or lines, or in the case of magma pipes, circles stacked on top of each other. The size of the circles is randomized, as is the algorithm for making veins and chasms turn in different directions, but they're all simple shapes. To put it how I see it, I'm not sure if you could just insert fractal algorithms, or if it would be like trying to generate similar fractals using tools in MS Paint.

I don't think you actually know what petrified wood is

Petrified wood isn't just a stone in real life, we all know that, but for all purposes it has the same properties as a stone in DF, unless you meant something different.

[Neonivek]

If you want my idea of a special plant life

How about creatures that grow from seeds?

[Footkerchief]

If you want my idea of a special plant life

How about creatures that grow from seeds?

Depending how eggs are handled in the near future, it might be easy to fake this with plants returning eggs as seeds.

[Silverionmox]

I don't think you actually know what petrified wood is

It's for all intents and purposes a mineral with unusual patterns.

Why not? At this point non-layer mineral patches, magma pipes, chasms etc. are always the same predefined shape. I don't see why there couldn't be a few predefined stone forest shapes.
Of course randomized shapes of mineral patches will eventually be implemented. And there's no reason why tree shapes can't be randomly generated; generating tree-like shapes is a typical example of something a simple fractal algoritm can do.

That's true; I'm just not sure if the current code requirements to generate stone patches and veins, as well as magma pipes, can work for anything much more complicated, such as a fractal algorithm, that requires branching: all of the current shapes generated are rough circles or lines, or in the case of magma pipes, circles stacked on top of each other. The size of the circles is randomized, as is the algorithm for making veins and chasms turn in different directions, but they're all simple shapes. To put it how I see it, I'm not sure if you could just insert fractal algorithms, or if it would be like trying to generate similar fractals using tools in MS Paint.

It's possible, the world map is just a bunch of superimposed bitmaps if you want to look at it that way. More complicated algorithms than "copy this series over there" will be more demanding on the CPU, i.e. slower. That shouldn't be a problem for anyone except those who generate a new world for every fortress - but if they don't use most of the world, they can as well generate smaller ones.

[Variance]

It's possible, the world map is just a bunch of superimposed bitmaps if you want to look at it that way. More complicated algorithms than "copy this series over there" will be more demanding on the CPU, i.e. slower. That shouldn't be a problem for anyone except those who generate a new world for every fortress - but if they don't use most of the world, they can as well generate smaller ones.

That's the thing, though--the world map does use mathematical generation patterns, which are basically fractals, and I'm sure that fractals would work fine if implemented; I'm just not sure that they can be implemented at this point in the framework worldgen uses.

Worldgen determines topography and stone type/mineral content separately, topography determined with randomized fractals and geologic content determined based on another algorithm entirely, so to make a specific shape of a specific mineral combines the two in a way that, off the top of my head, I don't see any examples of in DF. All the other items, such as veins, are random pre-programmed features of a given stone layer, and exist outside of topography, which is why they can end and begin at strange places.

A tree that generates fractally would have to exist outside of a stone layer, given that it's not contained in a stone layer or soil layer, and would have effectively its own topography, by having a distinct shape. Currently, no stone or soil part of the game exists with its own premade shape independent of a stone layer, as in on top of or on the side of the layer. Toady would have to totally reprogram how stones work, and this might come hand-in-hand when we have true randomized veins based on geography rather than stone layer, or he would have to make petrified wood an entirely new object in the game, independent of stone, but otherwise, I can't see this being implemented where the trees are really made out of petrified wood as it currently is, a stone.

[Silverionmox]

I was under the impression that it was just a step-by-step process of 1: generating the stone layers, minerals & oceans, 2: erosion and 3: rivers. In other words, the minerals are generated and saved at worldgen, but everything after that is a manipulation of that map, and is saved afterwards. It has to be, because historical alterations are saved after that too (tunnels etc.).

So I think it's just a matter of inserting a block of code that generates petrified wood in the appropriate pattern instead of a vein (if it's about 2d trunks on a single level). If it has to be a 3d affair on the surface, it can be plonked down anywhere just like any town.

To conclude, there's still some work to make the mineral levels z-consistent (veins moving across z-levels etc.) As soon as that's done, there can be petrified trees underground that are totally buried where they stood, continuing dozens of levels deep. That would be extremely exceptional, because it requires a flash flood of cool volcanic mud or something similar to do that.

[Variance]

I was under the impression that it was just a step-by-step process of 1: generating the stone layers, minerals & oceans, 2: erosion and 3: rivers. In other words, the minerals are generated and saved at worldgen, but everything after that is a manipulation of that map, and is saved afterwards. It has to be, because historical alterations are saved after that too (tunnels etc.).

It does do that, but it doesn't just magic the world into place in step one. It generates the lay of the land, i.e., mountains and whatever is there before erosion, which presumably isn't much variation anyway in height, and generates the contents of the stone layers without consideration to the topography. The only concern is where certain minerals are biome-relative, such as sea muck and, presumably, limestone in the correct places; they don't look at the shape of the land, though, they look at what's on the top, basically weather and if there are soil layers. There are no specific shapes currently that by default have one certain stone they're made out of due to their shape, as it would have to be with petrified trees.

Then, of course, steps 2 and 3 happen.

So I think it's just a matter of inserting a block of code that generates petrified wood in the appropriate pattern instead of a vein (if it's about 2d trunks on a single level). If it has to be a 3d affair on the surface, it can be plonked down anywhere just like any town.

That would work if Toady implements another type of stone grouping; currently we only have several types of veins and 2D circle-like patches, so I'm not sure if an actual algorithm fits in. Though that would be cool; Again, I just don't think that the fractal algorithm can be implemented in the vein generation system where everything is currently circles and lines that can change direction randomly, which doesn't involve math. Toady probably just uses [RAND] for that, in addition to the combat rolls system.

To conclude, there's still some work to make the mineral levels z-consistent (veins moving across z-levels etc.) As soon as that's done, there can be petrified trees underground that are totally buried where they stood, continuing dozens of levels deep. That would be extremely exceptional, because it requires a flash flood of cool volcanic mud or something similar to do that.

It's even better when that flood happens while you're at your fortress, and buries everyone. That would be awesome.