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[veryinky]

Option for turning on/off art defilement in the init file. So dwarves don't go from ecstatic to miserable when someone loses a masterpiece bucket somewhere.

[BurnedToast]

hey lets have an ini option so dwarves don't have to drink or eat too! and we could make an ini option that makes them invulnerable! and then we could make one that makes all workshops not use materials!

[Grek]

quote:Originally posted by BurnedToast:
<STRONG>hey lets have an ini option so dwarves don't have to drink or eat too! and we could make an ini option that makes them invulnerable! and then we could make one that makes all workshops not use materials!</STRONG>

Init options are for features that are not fully implemented and/or buggy. Art defacement is a little too extreme at the moment. Eating, drinking, dieing, and building stuff is put together well. Please put more thought into your posts.

[kuro_suna]

How about instead the amount of negative though caused by the loss of a masterpiece is dived by the number of masterpieces that dwarf has created.
If a craft dwarf has created one masterpiece losing it will cause 1000 point of damage but if a legendary weaver has created 400 masterpiece bags they will only lose 1000/400 points if one is destroyed.

[Majestic7]

Besides, some sort of cheat/wizard mode in general might make learning the game easier. At least that is how I learned to play roguelikes for the first time years ago - it was easier to learn the basics and then play "for real" later. Learning to play DF can be a daunting task - even more so nowadays with three dimensions and all. I actually have a few friends who appreciate the game based on what people talk about it, but just don't dare to play it because it hits you on the head with a such information overload in the beginning.Although I enjoy playing games at harsh difficulty levels for the challenge (Losing is fun!), there is nothing wrong at playing with the easiest difficulty levels either. It always annoys me when people post on game forums posts that imply playing on very hard difficulty level is somehow more....worthwhile than playing on easy. Hey, they are just fricking games, everyone should be able to enjoy them the way they want to.

Yeah, a bit general rant...but kind of connected to the topic.

[BurnedToast]

quote:Originally posted by Grek:
<STRONG>

Init options are for features that are not fully implemented and/or buggy. Art defacement is a little too extreme at the moment. Eating, drinking, dieing, and building stuff is put together well. Please put more thought into your posts.</STRONG>

Sorry I forgot the [sarcasm]  [/sarcasm] tags.

I don't think it's too extreme. Other then bugs with rotting clothes and stuck in bolts (both of which are fairly minor), it seems to work pretty well IMO. That you can't protect your masterpieces (or insist on engraving the whole fort with legendary engravers) means you just need to pay more attention. I find it rather annoying when the game is already incredibly easy and people want to make it even easier.

Boo I died, lets make an option to turn off what killed me!

[Tamren]

quote:Originally posted by Grek:
<STRONG>Init options are for features that are not fully implemented and/or buggy.</STRONG>

Nothing wrong with a sandbox mode. Especially as we are all technically alpha testers.

[Aquillion]

quote:Originally posted by BurnedToast:
<STRONG>hey lets have an ini option so dwarves don't have to drink or eat too! and we could make an ini option that makes them invulnerable! and then we could make one that makes all workshops not use materials!</STRONG>

You can do all of this already with mods, actually (and some people do, when they want to test odd things or do something silly.)  You can't turn off art defacement.

Although, really, if art defacement is too extreme, I would rather it just be fixed than create an init option.  The main problem with init options is that, since they mean different people will have different setups, they can make debugging much more complicated.  While it's not worth putting too much work into balance at this early stage, I can't imagine it would be that hard to just tone down the unhappy thought from art defacement slightly...  or to scale it better to the value and type of the item, which is something that makes sense in the long term anyway.  Losing a masterpiece bucket might be bad, but it's not as bad as losing a masterpiece golden statue.

[Eagle of Fire]

It took almost whole season (or maybe a week or two) for my master leatherworker to go crazy after he went miserable. I've let him go because he went to the meeting place with my leader and I thought they were chatting, my leader using his skills to calm him down... Then he went postal.

Had I know there was enough time to do it, I would have locked him out in his own room. I wish there was a way to brind food and booze down in a room from one level up, I'd make a room for those miserable legendary dwarves to rest and recuperate.

A nice room with lots of rocks to throw and a few masterwork statues should be enough to counterbalance the negative amount of thoughts after a while...  

[Dvalin]

So. My bowyer ended up getting legendary bone engraving after going fey, and made some masterwork bolts -- and because these are bolts, they were in an ammo stockpile near the front of my fort. Lo and behold, a Kobold slinks out with a set of masterwork bolts, and the guy goes ballistic -- beats up my one stonecrafter (a high master), and then gets locked up after getting beaten up pretty solidly by the sheriff. I don't have any water on the map, so odds are both will die. Why? Because I had the poor fortune of having the fey mood happen to my arrow-maker. :/ It seemed sort of silly.

[Kagus]

I don't care how unbalanced it is, making your dwarves spit webbing is too much fun to pass up on.

[Markavian]

quote:Originally posted by BurnedToast:
<STRONG>I don't think it's too extreme. Other then bugs with rotting clothes and stuck in bolts (both of which are fairly minor), it seems to work pretty well IMO. That you can't protect your masterpieces (or insist on engraving the whole fort with legendary engravers) means you just need to pay more attention. I find it rather annoying when the game is already incredibly easy and people want to make it even easier.</STRONG>

I'm going to slyly ignore your last comment by saying; we pick our own challenges in life.

I'm using veryinky's no-clothes mod. Armor still, but no clothes, no pointless moaning, or running around cleaning up seiges, a very pleasing change to the game. Stuck in bolts are funny.

I haven't a problem with masterpiece art-defacement since the new version because I rarely let legendary workers make them. I don't let them make them because I'm scared of them being defiled and then the creator going mad destroying half my fort. I agree with veryinky, there should be an option to either disable or tweak art defacement because its a quite serious over-reaction. Challenges should be about tackling gameplay elements such as skillful AI, in trading, war, diplomacy, (construction goals?) and not in the micromanagement of dorfs too silly to mind themselves.

- Markavian

[Cosmonot]

quote:Originally posted by BurnedToast:
<STRONG>

Sorry I forgot the [sarcasm]  [/sarcasm] tags.

I don't think it's too extreme. Other then bugs with rotting clothes and stuck in bolts (both of which are fairly minor), it seems to work pretty well IMO. That you can't protect your masterpieces (or insist on engraving the whole fort with legendary engravers) means you just need to pay more attention. I find it rather annoying when the game is already incredibly easy and people want to make it even easier.

Boo I died, lets make an option to turn off what killed me!</STRONG>

You can't expect the game to stay remotely balanced in an early alpha state. Right now things are way easier than they should be because major challenges to a fort haven't really been implemented yet, in favor of making all the mechanics of running a fort work. Ideally things like politics, war, and large-scale disaster should be threats to a fort, and the mechanics relating to individual dwarves should be simpler to handle since you're supposed to be dealing with bigger things, which is a good reason to make dwarves less prone to spontaneous bouts of insanity over semi-random individual events.

[Greiger]

quote:Had I know there was enough time to do it, I would have locked him out in his own room. I wish there was a way to [bring] food and booze down in a room from one level up, I'd make a room for those miserable legendary dwarves to rest and recuperate.  

You might be able to do that by digging a channel in the ceiling in a room, making it a garbage dump and designating some food and booze for dumping now and then. Just un-forbid it when it hits the ground. Haven't tried it but seems like it would work.  I think I'll rig all my rooms up like that this next fort.

Back on topic, it seems like that would be something actually easier to fix outright than make an init option for, but I'm sure Toady is busy with other things so I wouldn't be surprised if it isn't fixed immediately.

[ December 29, 2007: Message edited by: Greiger ]

[Spiders Everywhere]

The game's more fun when playing carefully produces better results. Thing is, the penalty is so severe right now that there's nothing you can do to moderate it - in my experience a craftsdwarf who's ecstatic from sleeping in a fantastic room, drinking fantastic drinks and eating fantastic food in a fantastic dining room, etc, still ends so miserable from a single defacement that I've never seen one recover. If the penalty were adjusted so that an otherwise ecstatic dwarf could pull through the incident, it would actually provide more incentive for the player  to keep them happy.