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[Tormy]

Of course, with all that other stuff, is undermining really necessary?  I mean, plenty of people don't like it, and there have been plenty of other good suggestions, so does whether or not to have tunneling really need to be discussed?

I absolutely love the idea of tunnelers. Sieges would be much more challenging, just think about it. It's dividing the community, because some players are simply annoyed by the idea of tunnelers for various reasons. It's understandable. Thus if it's gonna be implemented, there must an option to turn it off in the init.

[LegoLord]

Of course, with all that other stuff, is undermining really necessary?  I mean, plenty of people don't like it, and there have been plenty of other good suggestions, so does whether or not to have tunneling really need to be discussed?

I absolutely love the idea of tunnelers. Sieges would be much more challenging, just think about it. It's dividing the community, because some players are simply annoyed by the idea of tunnelers for various reasons. It's understandable. Thus if it's gonna be implemented, there must an option to turn it off in the init.

And the fact that you can turn features on and off in the init.txt should be more obvious.

[irmo]

I absolutely love the idea of tunnelers. Sieges would be much more challenging, just think about it. It's dividing the community, because some players are simply annoyed by the idea of tunnelers for various reasons. It's understandable. Thus if it's gonna be implemented, there must an option to turn it off in the init.

I think the general solution for players who just want to build things, without outside forces coming and messing up their nice pristine fortress, should be to embark to somewhere well inside dwarven territory. Once the Army Arc/world transportation stuff is implemented, those locations should be fairly safe from sieges, especially the kind that bring demolition gear. Of course mineral resources will be sparse, but that will also help with your pristine fortress--you don't have to mine out veins of anything, you'll just import metal and gems as needed.

[LegoLord]

I absolutely love the idea of tunnelers. Sieges would be much more challenging, just think about it. It's dividing the community, because some players are simply annoyed by the idea of tunnelers for various reasons. It's understandable. Thus if it's gonna be implemented, there must an option to turn it off in the init.

I think the general solution for players who just want to build things, without outside forces coming and messing up their nice pristine fortress, should be to embark to somewhere well inside dwarven territory. Once the Army Arc/world transportation stuff is implemented, those locations should be fairly safe from sieges, especially the kind that bring demolition gear. Of course mineral resources will be sparse, but that will also help with your pristine fortress--you don't have to mine out veins of anything, you'll just import metal and gems as needed.

2 Problems:
1)  Some people like having sieges and the ability to build huge things, and
2)  If there are no valuable minerals, how do you trade for valuable items?

[Tack]

uh... cheat?
plunder other fortresses?

[LegoLord]

uh... cheat?
plunder other fortresses?

First one: NO!
Second one:  Maybe, but the player shouldn't need to.

[Tack]

make crafts out of bone, make crafts out of rock...

[LegoLord]

make crafts out of bone, make crafts out of rock...

Crafts are near worthless.

[Neonivek]

Well if you make enough crafts the value can rack up!

[Tack]

you make unreasonable offers to all dwarven caravans, and seize their stuff (if you can), and keep their wagons beached at the depo for a year each time it comes, that way you'll be surrounded by enemies, and you can attack the invading enemies and take their stuff.

[toad: pointless insult removed]

[Belteshazzar]

"Dig, Dig, Dig, Dig *whipcrack* digidigidigidigidig..." seismic reports from listening station #4.

Suspect incursion of goblin slave miners and likely hostile strike team.

Suggested course of action...

Prep C.C.a.R.P (Carp Containment and Release Point) for immediate dispatch and deployment.

[irmo]

2 Problems:
1)  Some people like having sieges and the ability to build huge things, and

Then create two worlds and play two different forts. The game supports that, you know.

You can't have sieges, and at the same time be able to build stuff without sieges messing it up. I'm sorry if that disappoints some people. You also can't have square circles, fat-free ice cream, or honest politicians.

2)  If there are no valuable minerals, how do you trade for valuable items?

You import minerals, make them into finished goods, and sell them. It's the traditional function of cities: putting all the artisans in one place so that they can turn raw material into useful products. And there's always farming, which can be done anywhere there's dirt.

[Osmosis Jones]

You also can't have square circles, fat-free ice cream, or honest politicians.

Boxing rings (it's a ring, but it's a square!), sorbet, and... hmmm... Ghandi maybe? The original, not the recent chick.

[LegoLord]

2 Problems:
1)  Some people like having sieges and the ability to build huge things, and

Then create two worlds and play two different forts. The game supports that, you know.

You can't have sieges, and at the same time be able to build stuff without sieges messing it up. I'm sorry if that disappoints some people.

Yes you can.  Can anyone say:  Great Wall of China? 
That thing is huge, and it was built with the intention of blocking attacks.  They had attacks, but they were able to build it, weren't they

[irmo]

Yes you can.  Can anyone say:  Great Wall of China? 
That thing is huge, and it was built with the intention of blocking attacks.  They had attacks, but they were able to build it, weren't they

At this point you're just being an asshole.