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[Tack]

I want to have goblins who can penetrate an *impenetrable fortress* or try to.

Things like trolls with drawbridge hooks.

Goblin siege towers, moat bridges, gnomic slave tunnelers, siege ladders and grappling hooks.

Humans could have even more advanced siege weaponry like catapults, etc.

[LegoLord]

Already been suggested and some of that is on the dev list.  Also, you should just stay of the tunneling subject because there never seems to be any agreement on that.

[Warlord255]

One particularly DF-worthy tactic would be goblin phalanxes.

[Foa]

Yeah, no one wants any holes in their maps because of dickwadded besieging enemies.

[Tack]

yeah... i've read the whole 14 something pages of underground diversity...

But all i'm saying is that they shouldn't just stop dead once you pull up a drawbridge or lock a door.
I've got an entire forest of traps which the stupid buggers never move to. they just sit around the edges of the map looking nervously at eachother and then leave, until i get bored and send out my overpowered champions to decimate them.

I want them to make an effort to attack.

[Foa]

yeah... i've read the whole 14 something pages of underground diversity...

But all i'm saying is that they shouldn't just stop dead once you pull up a drawbridge or lock a door.
I've got an entire forest of traps which the stupid buggers never move to. they just sit around the edges of the map looking nervously at eachother and then leave, until i get bored and send out my overpowered champions to decimate them.

I want them to make an effort to attack.

They destroy said construction, which each have their own 'health' level.

[Warlord255]

yeah... i've read the whole 14 something pages of underground diversity...

But all i'm saying is that they shouldn't just stop dead once you pull up a drawbridge or lock a door.
I've got an entire forest of traps which the stupid buggers never move to. they just sit around the edges of the map looking nervously at eachother and then leave, until i get bored and send out my overpowered champions to decimate them.

I want them to make an effort to attack.

A better gradiation of the [BUILDINGDESTROYER] tag would be another option; at 1, the creature could team up with others of its kind and put forth a concerted effort to bash down doors. At 2 and 3, it would work as 1 and 2 do now.

[Tack]

nah!! i want them to deassemble draw bridges, and build bridges over moats... i.e. goblin engineers build bridge over moat, troll breaks wall, goblins swarm in.

[Pilsu]

The game would need to know what's a moat or it'll do what building destroyers do: break every statue you laid out to guide your caravans meticulously one by one. Man I hope it gets better AI. In this case, they'd start building floors over your ponds!

Pulling down drawbridges with trolls wielding giant chains with hooks is far easier to implement. This would usually accomplish the goal of getting in. Just make it jammed until it's taken like doors. And stop the trolls from breaking it once it's down dammit  :p

[Tack]

well they got the troll ai right anyway

ZING

but yeah, i'd like for there to be a siege environment when there's a siege, instead of, hmmm... don't go outside you'll get shot, and wait for them to leave.

[Guy Montag]

I dunno. Really, you can stop any seige just by locking the front door unless you've amassed some insane amount of wealth that causes the goblins to bring trolls. They get bored and go away after awhile.

I hope seiges are made more difficult before enemy armies are drawn from limited pools. Otherwise the entire goblin Army will end up dead on your front porch and the game will be even less challenging.

[Hoborobo234]

Put a tag on doors or floodgates, that attracts the goblins to it, if they send a siege they shoudl send a battering ram to knockdown the floodgates or doors,or watever. This sort of thing needs to be done, atleast you could try and get them to build ladders over the walls. And you wouldnt need engineers to do it either becuase you could just send your troops after them, thast would send the seige away.

[Tormy]

Already been suggested and some of that is on the dev list.  Also, you should just stay of the tunneling subject because there never seems to be any agreement on that.

Yeah, we've talked about this in many topics so far. Here is one of the best threads about how to make the siege system better:
http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=27101.0

I've posted my ideas in that topic also, but I am gonna copy and paste it.

I think that these features would make the sieges quite challenging:

- Siege engines [Toady will work on this in the upcoming weeks]
- Diggers/Tunnelers [Special units -> digging tunnels into the player's fortress]
- Bridge Builders [Special units -> constructing bridges over the moats]
- "Mechanics" [Special units -> they are able to spot + disable the traps]

[LegoLord]

Of course, with all that other stuff, is undermining really necessary?  I mean, plenty of people don't like it, and there have been plenty of other good suggestions, so does whether or not to have tunneling really need to be discussed?

[Silverionmox]

Tunneling is dangerous, unreliable, slow and difficult. They will try to find a way to use any weak spot before tunneling: it should really be a measure of last resort.