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Author Topic: Concept check: Waterfall portcullis  (Read 1979 times)

Fossaman

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Re: Concept check: Waterfall portcullis
« Reply #15 on: December 11, 2008, 05:01:52 pm »

I've yet to find a suitable site, but if I can get it to work videos are in the offing.

As to water pressure: Has it occurred to you that there were never any water tiles less than 7/7 in that video? Because of the fact that it was a tower, water just gets teleported to the first available empty square: No flow is going on. If you look at the FPS during the flooding sequence, it's about twenty, yet the water flows nearly instantly to the end of the passage. This is not your typical flood.

Anyways, I've had objects pushed by water, I know. I'm pretty sure it works for creatures, too, based on my memories of my attempted fish trap.
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Andir

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Re: Concept check: Waterfall portcullis
« Reply #16 on: December 11, 2008, 05:46:23 pm »

I've yet to find a suitable site, but if I can get it to work videos are in the offing.

As to water pressure: Has it occurred to you that there were never any water tiles less than 7/7 in that video? Because of the fact that it was a tower, water just gets teleported to the first available empty square: No flow is going on. If you look at the FPS during the flooding sequence, it's about twenty, yet the water flows nearly instantly to the end of the passage. This is not your typical flood.

Anyways, I've had objects pushed by water, I know. I'm pretty sure it works for creatures, too, based on my memories of my attempted fish trap.
It works for dwarfs.  I'm positive.  I've tried damming up so many water flows it's not funny.  I've had dwarfs pushed off ledges, away from the wall they are constructing, etc.  I've even tried creating a water bridge to take water from the end of a waterfall and route it to my fortress.  Getting the last few floor tiles in place is a nightmare.  The problem with the above movie is what you stated.  The water is being teleported to the end and never generating flow.  I was working on a water based entrance trap that pushes goblins off the ledge into a pit.  If I ever get around to finishing it, I'll post videos.
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"Having faith" that the bridge will not fall, implies that the bridge itself isn't that trustworthy. It's not that different from "I pray that the bridge will hold my weight."

madrain

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Re: Concept check: Waterfall portcullis
« Reply #17 on: December 11, 2008, 06:39:02 pm »

I have nothing to add except to say that this idea is awesome and if it's ever accomplished successfully, I would love to have a copy of the save so I can study the effect in-game.
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Nesoo

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Re: Concept check: Waterfall portcullis
« Reply #18 on: December 11, 2008, 10:30:12 pm »

I can help with locating a fortress with a pretty sheer cliff with water at the top: Lashpools. (Note that it was generated in 40c, not 40d.)

I was meaning to do frequent updates on it, but I just haven't had much time to play. I do have some blueprints mapped out, I just haven't uploaded them yet.

It's going to have a waterfall right over the entrance with floor grates to stop water from actually entering the fortress, but I like your idea too.
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000508 □ [dwarf mode][flows] flooding over a full pond will kill the fish inside

Andir

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Re: Concept check: Waterfall portcullis
« Reply #19 on: December 11, 2008, 10:50:01 pm »

Ooh, I like this one actually.  Kind of a shame I don't see sand though.  It would make a nice project to shave off the cliff to a flat surface and build out the side of it.  Kind of like a "mushroom" off the side of the cliff and upward.  Not attached to the lowest level and not attached to the top but shoot out the side and then curve up kind of like the stem of:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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"Having faith" that the bridge will not fall, implies that the bridge itself isn't that trustworthy. It's not that different from "I pray that the bridge will hold my weight."

Cheshire Cat

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Re: Concept check: Waterfall portcullis
« Reply #20 on: December 11, 2008, 11:00:00 pm »

ive actually done this, though quite differently to you people. it was my first megaproject, as the only constant source of water was an underground river. so i used blocks of 3 pumps stacked on top of each other from the middle of the underground area right up to the to of a huge tank like tower, which had floodgates that would let a waterfall spill over my entrance. a couple of levers would retract the golden drawbridge, open the floodgates and close an area underneath in the fortress, allowing the waterfall to spill down through the centre of the fort and eventually back into the chasm.

the fort also has a system whereby the water from the tower can be flushed through the entrance hall into the same passages that take the water out to the underground chasm, though despite my best efforts ive never actually got an invading army inside, there are always too many importand dwarves being chased around the map or present in the hall when an invasion arrives. that system also has floodgates and drawbridges that seal the passage from the rest of the fort, including covering the fortifications that the ballistas fire through. ballistas and narrow hallways are hilariously awesome.

biggest things ive learnt are first the thing about water spillage that someone mentioned - water goes a few squares outwards as it falls, and in many cases wont drain back into where it should, but oddly just keep filling up the area around the drainage point that the main waterfall is hitting. you cant have engraved floors anywhere near an area that has a waterfall. they allways get wet eventually, and it makes your legendary engravers tantrum when tower cap mushrooms or shrubs and trees sprout out of their masterpeices. third, if you have an underground water feature, any passages that are not going to be filled with 7/7 water all the time need a paved road floor. otherwise tower cap mushrooms grow in them and block the water off. which can cause catastrophic backflows in other parts of your fort. and dont have any fortifications in any cliff faces near the waterfall, as it somehow finds its way in and builds up and then you get plants growing everywhere.

the big water tower i have also has aqueducts leading off it that pour water into several places in a moat around my fort. the moat flows pretty fast and drains back underground into the chasm i have. tests throwing kittens into said flowing moat seem to indicate that most creatures in the flowing water get swept underground and into the chasm, which is awesome. there are a few difficult to get to places in my fort that utilize this, as now ive had my fun with it and the population is epicly large, im setting it up for adventure mode then abandoning.

and pumps do seem to create more water then they drink up when they draw from a water source, so be really careful and unless you have a good place like my chasm to drain into then use a closed system or your entire map will get filled with water. seriously, the power of pumps was actually increased in the 40d update, it broke my system and i had to change my design a bit to make it work properly again.
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Greiger

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Re: Concept check: Waterfall portcullis
« Reply #21 on: December 11, 2008, 11:08:18 pm »

I have done something similar to this before, except it was magma instead of water coming out of a magma vent that the fortress was practically built into.  It worked for a short amount of time (I made sure everything anywhere near the lavafall was magmaproof) But drained the vent much much faster than the vent refilled, and caused a brush fire outside when one of the ropes I chain animals to to keep kobolds out caught fire.

I assume it would have been lethal to sieges. However after the functionality test the vent hadn't refilled enough to be effective by the time a ambush showed up.  And getting that working made me neglect my defenses.  The fortress was quickly overrun.

I think It only worked effectively because the magma source was so close to the fort entrance.  And likely if I woulda pumped most of the lava back up to the vent instead of channeling it to a chasm, it would have reloaded faster.
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