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[Damiac]

So in trunk I see food has been completely removed.  I'm ok with this, I don't think food has ever presented much interesting choice. I think it also made a few gods too unpleasant to play.

This is a huge buff for gozag. Early spriggan play should be a lot less annoying now. Troll endgame will feel less like a race against a clock that you sort of knew you were going to win anyway.

I do wonder what made them finally do it. Removing food has been talked about forever in the crawl dev forums.

[FakerFangirl]

I think removing hunger is silly. This means FoCK can infinitely Xomscum once D:2 is clear, shouting receives a HUGE buff, and everyone can wait on stairs like a Mummy. Skalds and Centaurs got completely scrapped to be replaced with sonic the hedgehog.

[Graven]

Yeah there are a lot of edge cases like regen stacking, Gozag, Troll/Ogre spellcasting etc that would be a lot stronger without food.

I need to test it before commenting, but it feels there would need to be a ton of changes to accommodate this.

[Inarius]

There will be changes i think. After all it's an in-between patch.

[Damiac]

Yeah there are a lot of edge cases like regen stacking, Gozag, Troll/Ogre spellcasting etc that would be a lot stronger without food.

I need to test it before commenting, but it feels there would need to be a ton of changes to accommodate this.

I've played a LOT of trolls, hunger or food never affected my choices, outside of course of not using gozag.  You just end up with so much permafood anyway, and trolls tend to go through content pretty quick.
Regen stacking? Like what, an amulet and the spell? It's hardly gamebreaking, and again, you could always do this, the hunger costs weren't that extreme.

The idea of xomscumming... well yeah, food did prevent that for non mummies. Perhaps that's something that will need to be addressed at some point, because if lingering on d1 for 10000 turns makes you 1% more likely to survive, some people will do it.

For gozag, I just think it moved him from too annoying to use to a god some people might actually pick.

Early game spriggan is noticably impacted by this, making it even easier, since their need to eat permafood only meant you had to be careful with your spellcasting. Now you can just kite and try again as necessary.  Outside of the early game this becomes less and less of an issue, although the psychological pressure certainly remains in the back of your head.

The centaur change to rollyball normal speed is weird... but then, centaurs were incredibly boring to me before. Fast enough to run away, terrible aptitudes mean you'll have to run away a lot. I don't get the need to remove the old races but that battle was lost a long time ago...

[Arcvasti]

If you check the open pull requests, there is in fact an alternate clock in the works. Not really sure it's better then just a food simplification thing that removes spell hunger, other food costs and chunks, but it's certainly a thing.

https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1493

[Inarius]

I'm waiting for the kobold revamp, i'm sure it will be more fun !

[Graven]

I'd have to try it out, but I'm relatively certain no hunger bumps Gozag from merely top tier to absolute best zig god in the game, since you don't need to be undead to exploit him now.

Reading the Github commit, that Zot clock sure is an idea someone had.

5000 turns per level allows for a 250,000 turn 3-rune game

At least it seems pretty lax? Neutral on this until further testing.

[Robsoie]

This turn clock made me look up at my 1st online win in the tourney in my archives (it was a demigod earth elementalist in 0. , because i remember i really took my time on it and looking at the log i won with 4 runes in 212708 turns.

So apparently that max turn isn't too bad but if there's a clock -by level- it's certainly going to be much more annoying as gaining early levels go fast in term of turns, but gaining later levels go very slowly.

But still why do they need to put a clock, why can't they just leave players play at their own pace ?
That's something i never understood, i remember when they put the argument years ago about that one guy that spent hours on the 1st floor for some reason, but hey if he enjoyed that's on him and is an annoyance for absolutely none else.

[Damiac]

I'd have to try it out, but I'm relatively certain no hunger bumps Gozag from merely top tier to absolute best zig god in the game, since you don't need to be undead to exploit him now.

Reading the Github commit, that Zot clock sure is an idea someone had.

5000 turns per level allows for a 250,000 turn 3-rune game

At least it seems pretty lax? Neutral on this until further testing.

By the time you're running zigs, was food ever really an issue? I know the psychological pressure is still there when I have 100 rations because they might run out eventually...

[Graven]

By the time you're running zigs, was food ever really an issue? I know the psychological pressure is still there when I have 100 rations because they might run out eventually...

It is, when you've been Gozag the entire run

edit: it's generally a good idea to limit potentially unfun but hypothetically optimal behaviour, mostly because some people will feel the need to engage in it constantly, and it'll leave them with a negative impression of your product. No matter if you are treating your game as a commercially viable product, or just a labour of love, you still want to provide people with a positive experience, sometimes even against their will.

In-game player behaviour, and the driving factors behind it, is extremely fascinating, and extremely infuriating in the same time. I haven't really read up that much, but there have been some videos and posts from developers and it's just ... whoa.

[FakerFangirl]

This turn clock made me look up at my 1st online win in the tourney

Nice. Demigod earth ele is rough because of the low hp and AC and range.

[Robsoie]

Maybe in current version, but that win was back in 0.8 in which things were different as the range wasn't bad at all if i remember well, but i didn't really played the character with earth magic in mind, i quickly switched to use spells i knew better.

summons at the time were very good, it was very fun to raise an army against the enemy own summons , as the summon system was far from all the super nerfed "need to be close, need to be seen, disappear super fast" summons from more recent versions (i think the summoning nerf cycle started in 0.10) , enemy summons were more difficult too as killing the summoner didn't removed the summoned monsters.

0.8 was also before the skill training change, so basically to improve a skill you had to do a specific action repeatedly for the xp to go into that skill (to improve earth magic you had to cast earth magic spell, to improve throwing you had to throw, etc...) , in my opinion i think the skill training change that happened in 0.9 is probably the best (positive for once) change DCSS ever had as some skills were frankly very annoying to train with the old system.
Liked 0.8 a lot, i think if it was possible to backport the skill training change to 0.8 i would still play that version

found the old tourney thread dedicaced to 0.8 , with my first win (couldn't believe i did it with this combo first )
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=84508.msg2307317#msg2307317
I also liked to manage my stash on Lair, so much time wasted worrying about jellies eating items and going back to check if the stash was always there (despite i knew it was safe there, i couldn't help myself to still worry)

[Graven]

Ah, the good old days of stashing stuff on Lair:2 so that nothing could spawn and mess with your dragon armours

[Damiac]

Ah, the good old days of stashing stuff on Lair:2 so that nothing could spawn and mess with your dragon armours

OMG I don't miss that. Or taking off your gloves, helmet, and boots to fight a slime. Or faffing around with diseased meat. Or not being able to butcher because you were wielding a cursed club.

I started after the bad old days of victory dancing to advance your skills. I can't even imagine...