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[frostshotgg]

I would argue that felids have the highest level of mistake tolerance. A FeBe vs MiBe, for example - They both have the same capacity to kill things more or less, thanks to being a berserker, but there's marginally more room for a new player to make a mistake on the Mi because it has more choices to make in terms of what gear to wear or consumables to carry around when inventory space becomes tight.

On top of that, much more importantly, Felids get out of jail free. There's no better way for a new player to learn what is and isn't safe to fight than to try to fight something and fail. Felids let you do that without sending you all the way back to square 1.

[Graven]

That is absolutely correct.

However, I'd like to offer the counter-argument that while Felid Berserkers have a very high level of mistake tolerance, they have virtually no way of preventing one of the biggest mistakes in the game.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

playing a FeBe

A Troll Berserker, on the other hand, is probably the best "absolute beginner" character in my opinion, because it's strongest in the early game and gradually falls off as more and more resistances are necessary to ease gameplay, while new players are somewhat unlikely to survive to that point. It's also a bit more interactive than Felids, but whether that's good depends on players, and players' moods at the time of playing.

It can be argued that it may distort new players' idea of what is and what isn't dangerous to fight, but I still routinely die trying to melee Ettins and I've been playing for forever, so...

[Retropunch]

Very good points, I was completely forgetting about the multiple lives with Felids. I think I was thinking of Octopodes and just getting everything jumped up - blame it being late!

[Arcvasti]

Protip: If you get Shoals and aren't a Gargoyle/Merfolk/Grey Draconian, then go to D:1 and exit the dungeon so you fail with dignity.

I died so many times in Shoals that I started doing Vault:1-4 first because it was easier.

This char did exactly that AND Elf for good measure. Still died, although it was more due to not being mentally prepared for every encounter being life or death then from being legitimately overwhelmed. Not only did the merfolk avatar I was fighting dodge the lightning bolt I sent their way, but they also somehow managed to attack me with four drowned souls when I only saw two onscreen. Asphyxiation damage is bullshit.


The thing with Felids is that they force careful play and maximum use of all your resources. Another character might pass up training Stealth or using whatever spells drop because they're robust enough that they can afford to. Felids don't have that luxury and have to be played very well. But they've got a number of things that make them good as long as you don't make any mistakes: Fast speed, high EV and MR and extra lives to ward off OHKOs.

EDIT:

I'd still say that Felids are a good new player race, but more for tempering your strategy and attitude then for win porpoises. Deep Elves are somewhat similar, except they have considerably more oomph to their ranged game and thus don't have to take hits to their delicate flesh as often.

[TheDarkStar]

I finally collected all the runes and finished linesprint. I've found that getting the orb and escaping is pretty easy to do with a melee character + a good offensive god, but I always died to one of the many later rooms.

Spoiler: in case you want to figure out how to beat it on your own (click to show/hide)

I ended up going with a generic MiFi^Qaz because minotaurs have high HP and have good melee skills and I went with Qazlal because of his ability to attack every tile in your vision. In normal crawl, it's probably difficult to spam his ability because it takes a while to build up piety, but in sprint piety builds so fast that I spammed it through most rooms. In general, I picked the heaviest armor I could because in linesprint you basically have to fight every room until everything is dead unless you want to use up all your potions of haste early on.

Anyway, that's been my general strategy. This time, I picked up Bloodbane (!) in the weapon pile in the third room. By the time I had cleared the Lair rooms I had armor in every slot and had a ring with decent resists (including rCorr, which would be vital if I wasn't using Qazlal but was still useful, and rF++, which was very very useful). The next rooms were fairly uneventful - Qazlal's powers can single-handedly clear all the rooms up until the Vault rooms start. Eventually, I realized that I had no source of rN+. Searching the map showed that the only items with rN+ were weapons that were far inferior to my artifact demon sword. I did find the Armour of the Dragon King (!!) in the last loot pile, though, and that was very helpful.

I started to run into issues around the Crypt room. I was still missing rN and so I had to carefully spam disaster area while paying attention to my HP and drinking healing potions as necessary. I almost died in the last tomb room, but I had just enough MP to kill the last greater mummy and destroy its summons.

I was fairly worried about the end. I've died to the assorted demon lords (that are unhelpfully all in the same room) a bunch of times (mostly to Lom Lobom), so this time I ran away as soon as I opened the door and then fought them one by one as they wandered down the hall towards me. I ended up just quaffing a potion of strength + berserking every time to maximize my rate of damage dealing. I've used this approach before, but unlimited berserking made it much easier. After a while, I cleared all of the final enemies and grabbed the runes. As a sidenote, Qazlal isn't all that effective at killing Pan lords - they have so much HP that my piety went down to **** before I could kill them.

The run back was probably the hardest part. I had no rN (as in, no viable sources of rN spawned for me, not even rings) and until then I hadn't had to deal with many enemies with smiting attacks (Brimstone Fiends, Ice Fiends, etc) so I had to be really careful about not spamming tab until I'd cleared all enemies with smite. The two issues I ran into were that berserking prevented me from quaffing potions/invoking Disaster Area and that I didn't have enough MP or piety to kill every enemy I saw with Disaster Area. As a result, I ended up quaffing all my healing potions on the way. I had a few scary run-ins with Pan lords where my survival depended on successfully hitting them before they hit me.

tl;dr: Qazlal is awesome, finding an artifact demon blade and eventually artifact gold dragon armor is awesome, and rN is optional for killing Pan lords.

Code: [Select]

Dungeon Sprint DCSS version 0.19.0 (tiles) character file.

132138893 Guoh the End of an Era (level 24, 87/174 HPs)
             Began as a Minotaur Fighter on Apr 5, 2017.
             Was the Champion of Qazlal.
             Escaped with the Orb
             ... and 17 runes!
             
             The game lasted 00:26:28 (13799 turns).

Guoh the End of an Era (Minotaur Fighter)          Turns: 13799, Time: 00:26:29

Health: 87/174     AC: 51    Str: 24    XL:     24   Next: 0%
Magic:  27/42      EV: 23    Int:  5    God:    Qazlal [******]
Gold:   402        SH: 38    Dex: 19    Spells: 0 memorised, 77 levels left

rFire  + + +      SeeInvis .    q - +8 demon blade {slice, *Rage +Rage Stlth-}
rCold  + + .      Gourm    .    x - +9 armour of the Dragon King {rPois rF+ rC+ MR+}
rNeg   . . .      Faith    .    y - +3 large shield {AC+3}
rPois  +          Spirit   .    (helmet restricted)
rElec  .          Reflect  .    S - +2 cloak {MR+}
rCorr  +          Harm     .    B - +2 pair of gloves
MR     +++..      Rnd*Rage +    r - +2 pair of boots
Stlth  .......... NoTele   +    (no amulet)
                                J - ring of protection from cold
                                l - ring "Kasygy" {rCorr rPois rF++ Str+4 Stlth-}

@: contaminated, hasted, glowing, repel missiles, very quick
A: retaliatory headbutt, horns 2, berserk 1, clumsy 1, frail 3, low mp 2, weak
1, subdued magic 1, MP-powered wands
a: Upheaval, Elemental Force, Disaster Area, Renounce Religion, Evoke Berserk
Rage
0: Orb of Zot
}: 17/15 runes: decaying, serpentine, barnacled, slimy, elven, silver, golden,
iron, obsidian, icy, bone, abyssal, glowing, magical, fiery, dark, gossamer


You escaped.
You worshipped Qazlal.
Qazlal was exalted by your worship.
You were not hungry.

You visited 1 branch
You collected 1963 gold pieces.
You spent 1561 gold pieces at shops.

Inventory:

Hand Weapons
 d - the +7 sceptre of Asmodeus
   (You took it off Asmodeus in the Dungeon)
 h - the +4 staff of Dispater
   (You took it off Dispater in the Dungeon)
 q - the +8 demon blade "Bloodbane" (weapon) {slice, *Rage +Rage Stlth-}
   (You found it in the Dungeon)   
   
   It inflicts extra damage upon your enemies.
   
   It lets you go berserk.
   It may make you go berserk in combat.
   It makes you less stealthy.
 I - the +5 double sword of Skirmishing {venom, rC+++}
   (You found it in the Dungeon)   
   
   It poisons the flesh of those it strikes.
   
   It renders you almost immune to cold.
 M - a +3 scimitar of flaming
 X - the +6 sword of Cerebov {flame}
   (You took it off Cerebov in the Dungeon)   
   
   It has been specially enchanted to burn those struck by it, causing extra
   injury to most foes and up to half again as much damage against particularly
   susceptible opponents. Big, fiery blades are also staple armaments of
   hydra-hunters.
Missiles
 T - 18 silver javelins (quivered)
 U - 43 javelins
 V - 19 poisoned javelins
Armour
 r - a +2 pair of boots (worn)
 x - the +9 armour of the Dragon King (worn) {rPois rF+ rC+ MR+}
   (You found it in the Dungeon)   
   
   It protects you from fire.
   It protects you from cold.
   It protects you from poison.
   It affects your resistance to hostile enchantments.
 y - a +3 large shield of protection (worn)
 B - a +2 pair of gloves (worn)
 S - a +2 cloak of magic resistance (worn)
Jewellery
 l - the ring "Kasygy" (left hand) {rCorr rPois rF++ Str+4 Stlth-}
   (You found it in the Dungeon)   
   
   [ring of resist corrosion]
   
   It affects your strength (+4).
   It greatly protects you from fire.
   It protects you from poison.
   It makes you less stealthy.
 v - an uncursed ring of see invisible
 E - the ring of Tyosch {rElec rF+ rC+}
   (You found it in the Dungeon)   
   
   [ring of protection from cold]
   
   It protects you from fire.
   It protects you from cold.
   It insulates you from electricity.
 G - the ring of Ulyzae {rPois rC+ Str+5 Int-2 Stlth+}
   (You found it in the Dungeon)   
   
   [ring of protection from cold]
   
   It affects your strength (+5).
   It affects your intelligence (-2).
   It protects you from cold.
   It protects you from poison.
   It makes you more stealthy.
 J - a ring of protection from cold (right hand)
 K - an uncursed ring of see invisible
 N - a +6 ring of dexterity
 O - a +6 ring of dexterity
 P - a +4 ring of protection
 Q - a +2 ring of slaying
 R - the ring "Jynte Utu" {Ice +Fly Str+8 Slay-6}
   (You found it in the Dungeon)   
   
   [ring of ice]
   
   It enhances your ice magic.
   It affects your strength (+8).
   It affects your accuracy and damage with ranged weapons and melee attacks
   (-6).
   It makes you vulnerable to fire.
   It protects you from cold.
   It lets you fly.
Wands
 p - a wand of lightning (7/15)
 u - a wand of iceblast (2/15)
 L - a wand of hasting (3/9)
 Z - a wand of flame (18/48)
Scrolls
 c - 2 scrolls of enchant weapon
 k - 3 scrolls of blinking
 n - 6 scrolls of remove curse
 o - 3 scrolls of amnesia
 w - 6 scrolls of fog
 C - a scroll of identify
 D - 5 scrolls of fear
 F - 3 scrolls of recharging
Potions
 a - 5 potions of cure mutation
 b - 2 potions of brilliance
 g - 2 potions of invisibility
 i - 4 potions of magic
Books
 t - a book of the Tempests   
   
    Spells                             Type                      Level
    a - Static Discharge             Conjuration/Air               3
    b - Lightning Bolt               Conjuration/Air               5
    c - Fireball                     Conjuration/Fire              5
    d - Tornado                      Air                           9
    e - Shatter                      Earth                         9
Miscellaneous
 W - the horn of Geryon
Comestibles
 f - 15 bread rations
 z - 39 fruits
 A - 7 meat rations
 Y - a beef jerky


   Skills:
 O Level 27 Fighting
 O Level 27 Long Blades
 O Level 27 Staves
 O Level 27 Throwing
 O Level 27 Armour
 O Level 27 Dodging
 O Level 27 Stealth
 O Level 27 Shields
 O Level 27 Unarmed Combat
 O Level 27 Spellcasting
 O Level 27 Invocations
 O Level 27 Evocations


You had 77 spell levels left.
You didn't know any spells.

Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (1/1)             

Altars:
Cheibriados
Dithmenos
Elyvilon
Fedhas
Gozag
Hepliaklqana
Kikubaaqudgha
Makhleb
Nemelex Xobeh
Okawaru
Qazlal
Ru
Sif Muna
Trog
Uskayaw
Vehumet
Xom
Yredelemnul
Zin
The Shining One
Beogh
Jiyva
Lugonu

Shops:
D [?(*


Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations

You reflexively headbutt those who attack you in melee.
You have a pair of horns on your head.
You tend to lose your temper in combat.
You are clumsy. (Dex -2)
You are extremely frail. (-30% HP)
Your magical capacity is very low. (-20% MP)
You are weak. (Str -2)
Your spells are a little easier to cast, but a little less powerful.
You expend magic power (3 MP) to strengthen your wands.


Message History

Press < or > to pray at altars.
Unknown command.
Press < or > to pray at altars.
Unknown command.
Press < or > to pray at altars.
Unknown command.
Press < or > to pray at altars.
There is a roughly hewn altar of Beogh here.
You are contaminated with residual magic.
Items here: ( )) [[
a hunting sling; an uncursed flail of flaming; 16 stones; a robe; a buckler
Things that are here:
a shortbow; 14 arrows
There is an open door, spattered with blood here.
You see here 2 arrows.
You feel less exhausted.
You see here a club.
There is an open door to the Dungeon here.
There is a staircase leading out of the dungeon here.
You have escaped!

-snip-

Grand Total: 680 creatures vanquished

Notes
Turn   | Place    | Note
-------+----------+-------------------------------------------
     0 | D        | Guoh the Minotaur Fighter began the quest for the Orb.
     0 | D        | Reached XP level 1. HP: 19/19 MP: 0/0
    17 | D        | Reached skill level 5 in Long Blades
    29 | D        | Noticed a worker ant
    29 | D        | Noticed a centaur
    40 | D        | Killed a centaur
    40 | D        | Reached skill level 10 in Long Blades
    40 | D        | Reached XP level 2. HP: 26/26 MP: 1/1
    40 | D        | Reached XP level 3. HP: 31/31 MP: 2/2
    40 | D        | Reached XP level 4. HP: 39/39 MP: 3/3
    97 | D        | Found a roughly hewn altar of Beogh.
    97 | D        | Found a snail-covered altar of Cheibriados.
    97 | D        | Found a shadowy altar of Dithmenos.
    97 | D        | Found a white marble altar of Elyvilon.
    97 | D        | Found a blossoming altar of Fedhas.
    97 | D        | Found an opulent altar of Gozag.
    98 | D        | Found a hazy altar of Hepliaklqana.
    99 | D        | Found a viscous altar of Jiyva.
   100 | D        | Found an ancient bone altar of Kikubaaqudgha.
   101 | D        | Found a corrupted altar of Lugonu.
   102 | D        | Found a burning altar of Makhleb.
   103 | D        | Found a sparkling altar of Nemelex Xobeh.
   104 | D        | Found an iron altar of Okawaru.
   105 | D        | Found a stormy altar of Qazlal.
   106 | D        | Found a sacrificial altar of Ru.
   107 | D        | Found a deep blue altar of Sif Muna.
   108 | D        | Found a bloodstained altar of Trog.
   109 | D        | Found a hide-covered altar of Uskayaw.
   110 | D        | Found a radiant altar of Vehumet.
   111 | D        | Found a shimmering altar of Xom.
   112 | D        | Found a basalt altar of Yredelemnul.
   113 | D        | Found a glowing silver altar of Zin.
   115 | D        | Became a worshipper of Qazlal Stormbringer
   117 | D        | Found a glowing golden altar of the Shining One.
   165 | D        | Noticed a bullfrog
   165 | D        | Noticed a big kobold
   165 | D        | Noticed a bullfrog
   172 | D        | Killed a bullfrog
   172 | D        | Reached XP level 5. HP: 45/45 MP: 4/4
   176 | D        | Killed an unseen horror
   176 | D        | Reached * piety under Qazlal
   176 | D        | Reached XP level 6. HP: 51/51 MP: 5/5
   176 | D        | Reached XP level 7. HP: 57/57 MP: 6/6
   182 | D        | Reached ** piety under Qazlal
   225 | D        | Noticed a centaur warrior
   225 | D        | Noticed a wraith
   237 | D        | Killed an unseen horror
   237 | D        | Reached XP level 8. HP: 65/78 MP: 6/10
   241 | D        | Reached *** piety under Qazlal
   248 | D        | Reached skill level 10 in Fighting
   251 | D        | Killed a centaur warrior
   251 | D        | Reached XP level 9. HP: 92/92 MP: 7/12
   386 | D        | Got the ring "Kasygy" {rCorr rPois rF++ Str+4 Stlth-}
   405 | D        | Noticed a komodo dragon
   405 | D        | Noticed a spiny frog
   409 | D        | Reached **** piety under Qazlal
   413 | D        | Killed a spiny frog
   414 | D        | Noticed a komodo dragon
   420 | D        | Killed a komodo dragon
   423 | D        | Reached ***** piety under Qazlal
   424 | D        | Reached skill level 15 in Fighting
   429 | D        | Killed a komodo dragon
   552 | D        | Noticed a death yak
   552 | D        | Noticed a komodo dragon
   552 | D        | Noticed a spiny frog
   552 | D        | Noticed a komodo dragon
   557 | D        | Killed a komodo dragon
   557 | D        | Reached XP level 10. HP: 107/107 MP: 15/15
   558 | D        | Noticed a five-headed hydra
   565 | D        | Killed a death yak
   568 | D        | Killed a spiny frog
   574 | D        | Reached ****** piety under Qazlal
   577 | D        | Killed an eight-headed hydra
   577 | D        | Reached skill level 10 in Invocations
   705 | D        | Noticed a lindwurm
   728 | D        | Killed a lindwurm
   731 | D        | Reached XP level 11. HP: 124/124 MP: 16/18
   976 | D        | Noticed Urug
   985 | D        | Killed Urug
   985 | D        | Reached skill level 5 in Armour
  1160 | D        | Noticed an orc knight
  1160 | D        | Noticed a stone giant
  1170 | D        | Killed a stone giant
  1172 | D        | Killed an orc knight
  1172 | D        | Reached skill level 10 in Armour
  1459 | D        | Found Carrumoe's Assorted Antiques.
  1459 | D        | Noticed an orc high priest
  1459 | D        | Noticed an orc high priest
  1459 | D        | Noticed an orc high priest
  1459 | D        | Noticed an orc high priest
  1460 | D        | Killed an orc high priest
  1462 | D        | Killed an orc high priest
  1462 | D        | Killed an orc high priest
  1462 | D        | Killed an orc high priest
  1463 | D        | Found Laahutte's Weapon Shop.
  1465 | D        | Noticed an orc high priest
  1466 | D        | Found Buczi's Magic Scroll Boutique.
  1470 | D        | Noticed an orc high priest
  1472 | D        | Noticed an orc high priest
  1477 | D        | Noticed a sun demon
  1479 | D        | Killed an orc high priest
  1479 | D        | Killed an orc high priest
  1479 | D        | Killed an orc high priest
  1485 | D        | Found Domm's Antique Armour Shop.
  1488 | D        | Noticed an orc high priest
  1504 | D        | Killed an orc high priest
  1504 | D        | Reached XP level 12. HP: 97/133 MP: 4/21
  1616 | D        | Bought a distressingly furry plate armour for 532 gold pieces
  1626 | D        | Identified the +6 plate armour "Obanol" {rF+ MP+9 Stlth-} (You bought it in a shop in the Dungeon)
  1628 | D        | Bought a scroll of remove curse for 36 gold pieces
  1628 | D        | Bought a scroll of fear for 42 gold pieces
  1628 | D        | Bought a scroll of enchant armour for 90 gold pieces
  1628 | D        | Bought a scroll of fog for 24 gold pieces
  1628 | D        | Bought a scroll of identify for 24 gold pieces
  1628 | D        | Bought a scroll of blinking for 90 gold pieces
  1628 | D        | Bought a scroll of identify for 24 gold pieces
  1628 | D        | Bought a scroll of recharging for 114 gold pieces
  1632 | D        | Bought a potion of curing for 84 gold pieces
  1632 | D        | Bought a scroll labeled NEASTUCKUT for 28 gold pieces
  1632 | D        | Bought a fuming black potion for 25 gold pieces
  1632 | D        | Bought a scroll of identify for 56 gold pieces
  1632 | D        | Bought a scroll of remove curse for 84 gold pieces
  1632 | D        | Bought a potion of invisibility for 224 gold pieces
  1632 | D        | Bought a potion of curing for 84 gold pieces
  1671 | D        | Noticed Erica
  1674 | D        | Killed Erica
  1684 | D        | Noticed Harold
  1695 | D        | Killed Harold
  1695 | D        | Reached skill level 15 in Armour
  1836 | D        | Noticed an ogre mage
  1837 | D        | Reached skill level 15 in Invocations
  1838 | D        | Noticed a stone giant
  1850 | D        | Noticed a frost giant
  1853 | D        | Noticed a ghost crab
  1853 | D        | a hippogriff changed into a ghost crab
  1855 | D        | Killed a stone giant
  1856 | D        | Noticed a centaur warrior
  1859 | D        | Killed an ogre mage
  1859 | D        | a ghost crab changed into a redback
  1862 | D        | Noticed a stone giant
  1866 | D        | Noticed a centaur warrior
  1873 | D        | Killed a frost giant
  1882 | D        | Killed a stone giant
  1884 | D        | Killed a centaur warrior
  1887 | D        | Killed a centaur warrior
  2162 | D        | Noticed Aizul
  2164 | D        | Killed Aizul
  2273 | D        | Noticed Joseph
  2282 | D        | Killed Joseph
  2314 | D        | Reached XP level 13. HP: 138/139 MP: 25/25
  2387 | D        | Noticed a nagaraja
  2388 | D        | Killed a nagaraja
  2565 | D        | Noticed a merfolk impaler
  2590 | D        | Killed a merfolk impaler
  2813 | D        | Noticed Grum
  2820 | D        | Killed Grum
  2862 | D        | Noticed a quicksilver dragon
  2862 | D        | Noticed a stone giant
  2862 | D        | Noticed an ettin
  2863 | D        | Killed an ettin
  2863 | D        | Killed a stone giant
  2864 | D        | Killed a quicksilver dragon
  2864 | D        | Killed a cyan very ugly thing
  2873 | D        | Paralysed by a great orb of eyes for 4 turns
  2883 | D        | Reached XP level 14. HP: 142/148 MP: 19/28
  2896 | D        | Noticed a fire giant
  2920 | D        | Killed a fire giant
  3038 | D        | Noticed an ironheart preserver
  3047 | D        | Noticed an entropy weaver
  3048 | D        | Killed an ironheart preserver
  3078 | D        | Killed an entropy weaver
  3088 | D        | Noticed an ironheart preserver
  3117 | D        | Killed an ironheart preserver
  3329 | D        | Noticed Louise
  3353 | D        | Killed Louise
  3433 | D        | Noticed Jory
  3442 | D        | Killed Jory
  3543 | D        | Noticed a tengu reaver
  3544 | D        | Noticed Sojobo
  3545 | D        | Killed a tengu reaver
  3545 | D        | Killed Sojobo
  3545 | D        | Reached skill level 27 in Invocations
  3545 | D        | Reached XP level 15. HP: 155/155 MP: 31/31
  3547 | D        | Noticed a tengu reaver
  3558 | D        | Killed a tengu reaver
  3602 | D        | Noticed Frederick
  3609 | D        | Killed Frederick
  3726 | D        | Noticed a nagaraja
  3727 | D        | Noticed a nagaraja
  3728 | D        | Killed a nagaraja
  3728 | D        | Killed a nagaraja
  3739 | D        | Reached skill level 15 in Shields
  3740 | D        | Noticed a nagaraja
  3749 | D        | Noticed a nagaraja
  3750 | D        | Killed a nagaraja
  3750 | D        | Killed a nagaraja
  3839 | D        | Got a serpentine rune of Zot
  3895 | D        | Killed a ghost moth
  3900 | D        | Killed a ghost moth
  3969 | D        | Got a gossamer rune of Zot
  4101 | D        | Got a decaying rune of Zot
  4133 | D        | Noticed Ilsuiw
  4133 | D        | Killed Ilsuiw
  4133 | D        | Reached XP level 16. HP: 162/162 MP: 32/32
  4191 | D        | Got a barnacled rune of Zot
  4284 | D        | Noticed Xtahua
  4284 | D        | Paralysed by Xtahua for 6 turns
  4290 | D        | Killed Xtahua
  4290 | D        | Reached skill level 27 in Shields
  4482 | D        | Noticed an ancient lich
  4484 | D        | Killed an ancient lich
  4494 | D        | Noticed a shadow dragon
  4497 | D        | Noticed a shadow dragon
  4503 | D        | Killed a shadow dragon
  4508 | D        | Noticed a tengu reaver
  4514 | D        | Killed a shadow dragon
  4514 | D        | Reached XP level 17. HP: 118/183 MP: 26/33
  4697 | D        | Got a silver rune of Zot
  4700 | D        | Got a flickering lapis lazuli ring
  4702 | D        | Identified the ring of Mebbunua {MR- Int+5 Dex+5} (You found it in the Dungeon)
  4814 | D        | Noticed Boris
  4821 | D        | Killed Boris
  4867 | D        | Got the ring of Tyosch {rElec rF+ rC+}
  4879 | D        | Got the ring of Ulyzae {rPois rC+ Str+5 Int-2 Stlth+}
  5083 | D        | Got the +5 double sword of Skirmishing {venom, rC+++}
  5127 | D        | Noticed Mennas
  5160 | D        | Killed Mennas
  5160 | D        | Reached skill level 27 in Fighting
  5166 | D        | Noticed Donald
  5187 | D        | Killed Donald
  5221 | D        | Noticed Margery
  5234 | D        | Killed Margery
  5238 | D        | Reached skill level 27 in Long Blades
  5250 | D        | Reached skill level 27 in Armour
  5306 | D        | Noticed Rupert
  5308 | D        | Killed Rupert
  5360 | D        | Noticed a lich
  5360 | D        | Noticed a quicksilver dragon
  5362 | D        | Killed a lich
  5374 | D        | Killed a quicksilver dragon
  5405 | D        | Reached skill level 15 in Dodging
  5480 | D        | Noticed a quicksilver dragon
  5481 | D        | Killed a quicksilver dragon
  5481 | D        | Reached XP level 18. HP: 193/200 MP: 29/34
  5511 | D        | Noticed a curse toe
  5517 | D        | Killed a curse toe
  5885 | D        | Noticed a tentacled monstrosity
  5886 | D        | Killed a tentacled monstrosity
  5897 | D        | Reached skill level 27 in Dodging
  5897 | D        | Reached skill level 1 in Throwing
  5897 | D        | Reached skill level 1 in Stealth
  5897 | D        | Reached skill level 1 in Unarmed Combat
  5897 | D        | Reached skill level 1 in Spellcasting
  5897 | D        | Reached skill level 1 in Evocations
  6048 | D        | Noticed an Orb Guardian
  6048 | D        | Noticed an Orb Guardian
  6048 | D        | Noticed an Orb Guardian
  6048 | D        | Noticed an Orb Guardian
  6048 | D        | Noticed an Orb Guardian
  6048 | D        | Noticed an Orb Guardian
  6049 | D        | Killed an Orb Guardian
  6049 | D        | Killed an Orb Guardian
  6049 | D        | Killed an Orb Guardian
  6049 | D        | Reached skill level 5 in Unarmed Combat
  6049 | D        | Killed an Orb Guardian
  6049 | D        | Reached skill level 5 in Throwing
  6049 | D        | Killed an Orb Guardian
  6049 | D        | Reached skill level 5 in Stealth
  6049 | D        | Reached skill level 5 in Evocations
  6051 | D        | Killed an Orb Guardian
  6052 | D        | Noticed an Orb Guardian
  6053 | D        | Noticed an Orb Guardian
  6055 | D        | Killed an Orb Guardian
  6056 | D        | Noticed an Orb Guardian
  6062 | D        | Killed an Orb Guardian
  6062 | D        | Reached skill level 5 in Spellcasting
  6069 | D        | Killed an Orb Guardian
  6075 | D        | Killed an Orb Guardian
  6084 | D        | Noticed a tentacled monstrosity
  6084 | D        | Noticed an Orb Guardian
  6084 | D        | Noticed an Orb Guardian
  6084 | D        | Noticed a tentacled monstrosity
  6084 | D        | Noticed a golden dragon
  6087 | D        | Killed an Orb Guardian
  6087 | D        | Killed a tentacled monstrosity
  6087 | D        | Killed an Orb Guardian
  6087 | D        | Reached skill level 10 in Unarmed Combat
  6090 | D        | Killed a golden dragon
  6090 | D        | Reached skill level 10 in Throwing
  6092 | D        | Killed a tentacled monstrosity
  6093 | D        | Noticed an Orb Guardian
  6095 | D        | Noticed an Orb Guardian
  6098 | D        | Killed an Orb Guardian
  6098 | D        | Reached XP level 19. HP: 202/207 MP: 30/35
  6107 | D        | Reached skill level 10 in Stealth
  6107 | D        | Reached skill level 10 in Evocations
  6150 | D        | Noticed an ancient lich
  6165 | D        | Killed an ancient lich
  6198 | D        | Noticed an orb of fire
  6201 | D        | Noticed an electric golem
  6212 | D        | Killed an orb of fire
  6217 | D        | Killed an electric golem
  6270 | D        | Noticed an orb of fire
  6270 | D        | Noticed an orb of fire
  6273 | D        | Noticed an orb of fire
  6274 | D        | Killed an orb of fire
  6274 | D        | Reached skill level 10 in Spellcasting
  6274 | D        | Killed an orb of fire
  6274 | D        | Reached skill level 15 in Unarmed Combat
  6274 | D        | Gained mutation: You are clumsy. (Dex -2) [an orb of fire]
  6278 | D        | Gained mutation: Your magical capacity is low. (-10% MP) [an orb of fire]
  6279 | D        | Noticed an electric golem
  6280 | D        | Killed an orb of fire
  6280 | D        | Reached skill level 15 in Throwing
  6293 | D        | Killed an electric golem
  6397 | D        | Reached skill level 15 in Stealth
  6397 | D        | Reached skill level 15 in Evocations
  6428 | D        | Reached XP level 20. HP: 216/216 MP: 28/32
  6614 | D        | Noticed an ancient lich
  6616 | D        | Killed an ancient lich
  6626 | D        | Noticed an ancient lich
  6635 | D        | Noticed an ancient lich
  6635 | D        | Killed an ancient lich
  6638 | D        | Killed an ancient lich
  6854 | D        | Reached skill level 15 in Spellcasting
  6872 | D        | Got an elven rune of Zot
  6999 | D        | Noticed the Royal Jelly
  7001 | D        | Killed the Royal Jelly
  7062 | D        | Got a slimy rune of Zot
  7264 | D        | Reached XP level 21. HP: 215/224 MP: 36/36
  7274 | D        | Paralysed by a sphinx for 3 turns
  7671 | D        | Noticed a greater mummy
  7671 | D        | Noticed a greater mummy
  7671 | D        | Noticed a greater mummy
  7673 | D        | Killed a greater mummy
  7673 | D        | Killed a greater mummy
  7673 | D        | HP: 2/221 [guardian mummy's death curse (24)]
  7673 | D        | Killed a greater mummy
  7900 | D        | Got a golden rune of Zot
  8349 | D        | Got an abyssal rune of Zot
  8563 | D        | Noticed Geryon
  8586 | D        | Killed Geryon
  8733 | D        | Noticed Asmodeus
  8735 | D        | Noticed Cerebov
  8745 | D        | Killed Asmodeus
  8748 | D        | Noticed Ereshkigal
  8749 | D        | Noticed Mnoleg
  8752 | D        | Got an icy rune of Zot
  8754 | D        | Noticed Antaeus
  9090 | D        | Killed Cerebov
  9212 | D        | Killed Ereshkigal
  9212 | D        | Reached skill level 27 in Unarmed Combat
  9411 | D        | Killed Antaeus
  9411 | D        | Reached XP level 22. HP: 228/228 MP: 38/40
  9553 | D        | Noticed Gloorx Vloq
  9579 | D        | Killed Gloorx Vloq
  9590 | D        | Noticed Dispater
  9944 | D        | Killed Dispater
 10129 | D        | Killed Mnoleg
 10129 | D        | Reached skill level 27 in Throwing
 10419 | D        | Got an obsidian rune of Zot
 10424 | D        | Got a fiery rune of Zot
 10428 | D        | Got a bone rune of Zot
 10432 | D        | Got a dark rune of Zot
 10434 | D        | Noticed Lom Lobon
 10465 | D        | Killed Lom Lobon
 10467 | D        | Got an iron rune of Zot
 10495 | D        | Got a magical rune of Zot
 10502 | D        | Got a glowing rune of Zot
 11196 | D        | Got the Orb of Zot
 11301 | D        | Noticed Aceoviopn the pandemonium lord
 11334 | D        | Killed Aceoviopn the pandemonium lord
 11334 | D        | Reached skill level 27 in Evocations
 11575 | D        | Got the ring "Jynte Utu" {Ice +Fly Str+8 Slay-6}
 12164 | D        | Noticed Dicvuira the pandemonium lord
 12195 | D        | Killed Dicvuira the pandemonium lord
 12261 | D        | Reached skill level 27 in Stealth
 12266 | D        | Noticed Pocauq the pandemonium lord
 12272 | D        | Noticed Uruojucw the pandemonium lord
 12278 | D        | Killed Uruojucw the pandemonium lord
 12280 | D        | Killed Pocauq the pandemonium lord
 12621 | D        | Noticed a seraph
 12645 | D        | Killed a seraph
 12645 | D        | Reached XP level 23. HP: 200/240 MP: 45/45
 12789 | D        | Gained mutation: Your magical capacity is very low. (-20% MP) [a cacodemon]
 12907 | D        | Noticed Buguysch the pandemonium lord
 12951 | D        | Killed Buguysch the pandemonium lord
 12951 | D        | Reached skill level 27 in Spellcasting
 12951 | D        | Reached skill level 10 in Staves
 13108 | D        | Reached skill level 15 in Staves
 13135 | D        | Gained mutation: You tend to lose your temper in combat. [mutagenic glow]
 13137 | D        | Noticed Mageshrum the pandemonium lord
 13141 | D        | HP: 11/240 [hellion/damnation (22)]
 13170 | D        | Killed Mageshrum the pandemonium lord
 13374 | D        | Gained mutation: You are frail. (-10% HP) [mutagenic glow]
 13442 | D        | Gained mutation: You are very frail. (-20% HP) [mutagenic glow]
 13485 | D        | Noticed Tesig the pandemonium lord
 13504 | D        | Reached skill level 27 in Staves
 13528 | D        | Killed Tesig the pandemonium lord
 13530 | D        | Noticed Koenlahe the pandemonium lord
 13582 | D        | Killed Koenlahe the pandemonium lord
 13590 | D        | Gained mutation: You are weak. (Str -2) [mutagenic glow]
 13625 | D        | Gained mutation: Your spells are a little easier to cast, but a little less powerful. [mutagenic glow]
 13627 | D        | Noticed a seraph
 13656 | D        | Killed a seraph
 13727 | D        | Gained mutation: You expend magic power (3 MP) to strengthen your wands. [mutagenic glow]
 13775 | D        | Gained mutation: You are extremely frail. (-30% HP) [mutagenic glow]
 13779 | D        | Reached XP level 24. HP: 82/174 MP: 30/42
 13799 | D        | Escaped with the Orb!
             

Skill      XL: |  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 |
---------------+----------------------------------------------------------------------+-----
Long Blades    | 10       12 17    18                         23 27                   | 27.0
Fighting       |                    9 12 16 19 20             24 27                   | 27.0
Invocations    |                    4  6  8 10 14 18 22 27                            | 27.0
Armour         |                               14 18 20 23    25 27                   | 27.0
Shields        |                                           24 27                      | 27.0
Dodging        |                                                 20 27                | 27.0
Throwing       |                                                    10 17 21 25 27    | 27.0
Stealth        |                                                     9 16 20 24 27    | 27.0
Unarmed Combat |                                                    11 18 23 27       | 27.0
Spellcasting   |                                                     7 12 16 19 24 27 | 27.0
Evocations     |                                                     9 16 20 24 27    | 27.0
Staves         |                                                                   27 | 27.0

Action                   |  1- 3 |  4- 6 |  7- 9 | 10-12 | 13-15 | 16-18 | 19-21 | 22-24 || total
-------------------------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------++-------
Melee: Long sword        |    21 |     4 |       |       |       |       |       |       ||    25
       Headbutt          |     4 |     4 |    17 |    58 |    51 |   101 |   117 |   241 ||   593
       Demon blade       |       |    11 |    57 |   154 |   171 |   297 |   314 |   829 ||  1833
Invok: Disaster Area     |       |       |       |     9 |    23 |    26 |    37 |    10 ||   105
       Upheaval          |       |       |       |       |       |       |       |     1 ||     1
Evoke: Wand              |       |       |       |       |       |       |       |    13 ||    13
  Use: Potion            |     1 |       |       |       |       |       |    11 |    28 ||    40
       Scroll            |       |       |     2 |     8 |     3 |     5 |     1 |     4 ||    23
  Eat: Chunk             |       |       |       |     4 |     6 |     6 |     5 |       ||    21
       Fruit             |       |       |       |       |       |     1 |       |       ||     1
       Meat ration       |       |       |       |       |       |       |     2 |     3 ||     5
Armor: Scale mail        |     8 |     1 |       |       |       |       |       |       ||     9
       Chain mail        |       |     2 |    10 |     9 |       |       |       |       ||    21
       Plate armour      |       |       |       |    17 |    53 |    10 |       |       ||    80
       Gold dragon scale |       |       |       |       |       |    40 |    35 |   113 ||   188
Dodge: Dodged            |     5 |     2 |     4 |     9 |    15 |    23 |    49 |    99 ||   206
       Deflected         |       |       |       |     1 |     1 |     6 |     6 |     4 ||    18
Block: Shield            |    14 |     4 |    21 |    39 |       |       |       |       ||    78
       Large shield      |       |       |       |    40 |   132 |   230 |   231 |   673 ||  1306
Rpst.: Demon blade       |       |       |       |     2 |     2 |     2 |     1 |    12 ||    19



[Inarius]

So i've begun my adventure as a Minotaure, as you adviced me. Not dead yet, everything goes fine, level 8 dungeon.
I have speced axe and I'm heading to level 10, and level 10 in axes.

I just have a broad axe +0 (or a +2 hand axe of flaming)

Suddenly I have found a artefact, +12 long sword with +3 of dexterity and antimagic.

Should I wear it or wait ?

[flame99]

I would go for it and keep that axe around for, say, hydras, buuut I suck at crawl. So.

[heydude6]

Long sword is faster than broadaxe, but if you have your axes skill high enough so you swing your broadaxe at minimum delay or at least faster than the longsword than you should probably keep your axe. A weapon with high training is generally better than a weapon with no training though with cross training you should have some xp in long blades already.

What level is your axes skill and what level is your long blades?

[Inarius]

never had a longsword before, so lvl 0, and axe is lvl 10. (I'm only lvl 8 dungeon, this is my first game).

It just seems to me that +12 bonus is huge, and that "anti magic" is a really good bonus, considering that, moreover, I'm not a wizard.

[Ozarck]

axes and long swords don't cross train. long and short blades cross train, and axes crosses with polearms and maces.

I'd suggest trying the sword out, and if it feels like it is working out better than the current weapon, switch your training over. That flaming hand axe will come in handy for hydras - cuts off their heads and keeps them from growing new ones, so you'll want that as you explore lair.

[heydude6]

This is just the way I personally handle things, but usually when I find a super powerful artifact that I don't have training for, I normally use it until I find that the lack of levels is significantly hampering me and then throw it away (usually done with artifact falchions). An artifact longsword is not an endgame weapon, you're gonna want to replace it eventually (either with at least a scimitar, or claymore if you decide to stick with swords).

An important thing to understand about crawl is that exp is a limited commodity for most of the game and spending it wisely  is an important part of winning. If you decide to stick with longswords, then you would have thrown away 10 levels worth on exp on a weapon class you don't use anymore. Thankfully, due to the way levelling works, it might be still be cheaper to abandon axes and get your longsword to minimum delay rather than get your axes skill to level 20 to get the broad axe to minimum delay.

Also, one more tip. Read about minimum delay in order to understand how important it is. A weapons attack delay is very important in making the choice of which weapon to use.

[Inarius]

Well I know this kind of issue (I'm familiar with RPG in general) that's why I asked if it worthed the change.
From what I understood of what you said,this weapon is not good enough. So I will keep it and train with it for some use against wizards for example but I will keep my axe as a general use.

[Retropunch]

An important thing to understand about crawl is that exp is a limited commodity for most of the game and spending it wisely  is an important part of winning. If you decide to stick with longswords, then you would have thrown away 10 levels worth on exp on a weapon class you don't use anymore. Thankfully, due to the way levelling works, it might be still be cheaper to abandon axes and get your longsword to minimum delay rather than get your axes skill to level 20 to get the broad axe to minimum delay.

Agreed.That being said, if the weapon is something that I know I'll be holding onto a while, I'll normally get the skill lv up to lv.5 or so just to give me some proficiency in it. I'll then pump fighting to make sure that when I do cross over to my preferred choice, I'll be significantly better off, whilst still improving with the weapon I have.

[Aoi]

I'll then pump fighting to make sure that when I do cross over to my preferred choice, I'll be significantly better off, whilst still improving with the weapon I have.

Do people not typically raise fighting much as a meleer? I typically 100% my weapon skill until min delay (or 10+, depending on how high proficiency is), then split it evenly among fighting and defensive skills.

[TheDarkStar]

I'll then pump fighting to make sure that when I do cross over to my preferred choice, I'll be significantly better off, whilst still improving with the weapon I have.

Do people not typically raise fighting much as a meleer? I typically 100% my weapon skill until min delay (or 10+, depending on how high proficiency is), then split it evenly among fighting and defensive skills.

I'm surprised to see people not leveling fighting, either. The order I've been using is min-delay, then 16 fighting, then defense skills as appropriate.