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[Leafsnail]

They're by far the best race in any individual fight, so there drawback would have to be that they run out of HP over a long period of time eventually. Except they never did. Honestly they're probably still fine as long as you pick Makhleb or Trog.

[Graven]

Apparently Crawl was on RockPaperShotgun:

https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2017/03/23/making-dungeon-crawl-stone-soup-with-253-cooks-and-no-head-chef/

It's... it's certainly something.

David is focused on making the game harder. “It’s too easy,” he told me four different times.
-Dpeg, 2017

[Retropunch]

'No leads', it says, and then the article spends 75% of it talking about Dpeg's 'vision' and decrees on various stuff. I don't know if we're intended to read between the lines there.

The problem with Dpeg (and I'm attributing this primarily to him based on his comments on the forums, IRC, etc) is that he nerfs lots of alternative/niche styles under the guise of 'too easy' (when it seems to me he really means 'too many options'), while leaving the mainstream, big offenders of 'too easy' completely intact. From someone who's been playing Crawl since before Stone Soup was even a thing, I am looking forward to seeing someone else take over his current prominence in the dev team.

Agreed. This was my big problem with the direction DCSS went - a lot of interesting play styles got waved away as being too tedious/convoluted/whatever. There was a massive simplification that went on at one point which pushed it more towards 'coffee break RL', and I think it lost a lot of excitement and need for strategy.

I know I wasn't alone, and the community got increasingly toxic before I left. It's not gone bad or anything, I just think that it's lost a bit of it's charm by trying to simplify everything into being a sort of 'hack-n-slash RPG' instead of an RL.

[heydude6]

Speaking of older versions being better, does anyone know where I can download them? So far I have found a link to old MAC versions but nothing for windows

[Robsoie]

versions not their website anymore ( like 0.8.x that i kept around for nostalgia as it was the 1st time i got a tournament victory at the time ) should be found there :

https://sourceforge.net/projects/crawl-ref/files/Stone%20Soup/

[Antioch]

'No leads', it says, and then the article spends 75% of it talking about Dpeg's 'vision' and decrees on various stuff. I don't know if we're intended to read between the lines there.

The problem with Dpeg (and I'm attributing this primarily to him based on his comments on the forums, IRC, etc) is that he nerfs lots of alternative/niche styles under the guise of 'too easy' (when it seems to me he really means 'too many options'), while leaving the mainstream, big offenders of 'too easy' completely intact. From someone who's been playing Crawl since before Stone Soup was even a thing, I am looking forward to seeing someone else take over his current prominence in the dev team.

Agreed. This was my big problem with the direction DCSS went - a lot of interesting play styles got waved away as being too tedious/convoluted/whatever. There was a massive simplification that went on at one point which pushed it more towards 'coffee break RL', and I think it lost a lot of excitement and need for strategy.

I know I wasn't alone, and the community got increasingly toxic before I left. It's not gone bad or anything, I just think that it's lost a bit of it's charm by trying to simplify everything into being a sort of 'hack-n-slash RPG' instead of an RL.

Yeah somewhere along the way stuff was lost.

There were a lot of things that added FEAR to the game like item destruction, permanent corrosion and permanent drain that got removed. They were all replaced with mechanisms that just act as a force multiplier. Who cares about jellies or shadow dragons now if you can just whack em to death?

Item destruction was claimed to be tedious because people dropped all their stuff before engaging fire enemies, but I never did that so for me it only removed a source of fear.

And I thought the entire point of corrosion was that you had to put on an expendable set of gear.

[Retropunch]

Yeah somewhere along the way stuff was lost.

There were a lot of things that added FEAR to the game like item destruction, permanent corrosion and permanent drain that got removed. They were all replaced with mechanisms that just act as a force multiplier. Who cares about jellies or shadow dragons now if you can just whack em to death?

Item destruction was claimed to be tedious because people dropped all their stuff before engaging fire enemies, but I never did that so for me it only removed a source of fear.

And I thought the entire point of corrosion was that you had to put on an expendable set of gear.

Completely agree - it was the fear that really pushed me to keep playing and added such a lot of strategic depth.
The possibility of turning the corner and getting hit by a permanent stat drain meant I had to consider using something with rDrain (or whatever it's called) anywhere near that kinda enemy instead of just keeping UberAmulet3000. It also kept you engaged through boring bits - forget to change your armour when facing a jelly because you're tab smashing? bye clothes.

They've made some good changes as well, I just wish they'd kept the depth there - it's why I (and most others) play RLs over just standard RPGs. You just don't get RL players complaining that things are 'too complex' - it's half of the point of the genre.

[heydude6]

We're talking about the old draining brand. It used to permanently drain levels and skill levels. Now as an expert like you knows, exp is a precious limited resource in crawl (until you reach pan or abyss), whose proper management is an important part about not dying. When those enemies stole enough exp, you'd be permanently handicapped for the rest of the game.

Personally, I prefer the new system over the old one. With the new system, draining is still a long term delbilitating effect, but at least it doesn't gimp you.

[Ozarck]

Well, I've been playing a deep dwarf fighter of Mahkleb lately.

I got a pretty good armor and a pretty good weapon early on, and recently got a decent vampiric rapier.

I've been doing pretty good. cleared out lair, dungeon, and the two dungeon branches that aren't slime with relative ease.

And I wanted to share: I just nuked all of Vault:5  without moving from the stair I descended. That was ... pretty impressive to me.
I'm not bragging as if this were the result of skill. I am simply enjoyingthe ride. it was pretty fun to do, watching the enemy shoot each otehr trying to get me, firing a couple torments, spamming disc of storms. couple of summon scrolls, the occasional lamp of fire and (less effectively) stone of tremors.

(still playing v 0.17, btw)

[Graven]

Hadn't won in a while:

Code: [Select]

Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.20-a0-733-gf92fd71 (tiles) character file.

2455591 Gravenous the End of an Era (level 27, 250/273 HPs)
             Began as a Hill Orc Fighter on Apr 2, 2017.
             Was the Champion of Qazlal.
             Escaped with the Orb
             ... and 4 runes!
             
             The game lasted 02:19:28 (68126 turns).

Gravenous the End of an Era (Hill Orc Fighter)     Turns: 68126, Time: 02:19:28

Health: 250/273    AC: 39    Str: 29    XL:     27
Magic:  40/40      EV: 23    Int: 19    God:    Qazlal [******]
Gold:   7874       SH: 42    Dex: 17    Spells: 26/26 levels left

rFire    + + .     SeeInvis +   e - +9 eveningstar (drain)
rCold    + . .     Gourm    .   K - +12 fire dragon scales of the Three of Swords {+Inv rF++ rC- Int+2}
rNeg     . . .     Faith    .   y - +7 large shield {rF+}
rPois    +         Spirit   .   k - +1 hat {SInv}
rElec    +         Reflect  .   a - +1 cloak {rC+}
rCorr    +         Harm     .   M - +1 pair of gloves of the Albatross {rPois rF- rC+}
MR       +++..                  N - +0 pair of boots {run}
Stlth    ..........             C - amulet "Qimuker" {Regen+ Dex+5 Slay+5}
Regen    1.0/turn               A - ring "Taekips" {rElec rPois MR+ Stlth-}
MPRegen  0.3/turn               v - ring "Lohod" {rCorr Str-3 Int+9}

@: repel missiles, quick
A: iridescent scales 1, camouflage 1, agile 1
0: Orb of Zot
}: 4/15 runes: decaying, slimy, silver, gossamer
a: Upheaval, Elemental Force, Disaster Area, Renounce Religion, Evoke
Invisibility


You escaped.
You worshipped Qazlal.
Qazlal was exalted by your worship.
You were not hungry.

You visited 10 branches of the dungeon, and saw 53 of its levels.
You visited the Abyss 2 times.
You visited 1 bazaar.
You also visited: Trove, Ossuary, Ice Cave and Volcano.

You collected 9113 gold pieces.
You spent 1239 gold pieces at shops.

Inventory:

Hand Weapons
 e - a +9 eveningstar of draining (weapon)
Armour
 a - a +1 cloak of cold resistance (worn)
 k - a +1 hat of see invisible (worn)
 y - a +7 large shield of fire resistance (worn)
 K - the +12 fire dragon scales of the Three of Swords (worn) {+Inv rF++ rC- Int+2}
   (You found it on level 13 of the Dungeon)   
   
   It affects your intelligence (+2).
   It greatly protects you from fire.
   It makes you vulnerable to cold.
   It lets you turn invisible.
 M - the +1 pair of gloves of the Albatross (worn) {rPois rF- rC+}
   (You found it on level 11 of the Dungeon)   
   
   It makes you vulnerable to fire.
   It protects you from cold.
   It protects you from poison.
 N - a +0 pair of boots of running (worn)
 V - the +1 pair of gloves "Feuraol" {MR+ Str+4}
   (You found it on level 14 of the Dungeon)   
   
   It affects your strength (+4).
   It affects your resistance to hostile enchantments.
Jewellery
 u - an uncursed ring of protection from magic
 v - the ring "Lohod" (left hand) {rCorr Str-3 Int+9}
   (You found it in a treasure trove)   
   
   [ring of resist corrosion]
   
   It affects your strength (-3).
   It affects your intelligence (+9).
 A - the ring "Taekips" (right hand) {rElec rPois MR+ Stlth-}
   (You found it on level 4 of the Dungeon)   
   
   [ring of loudness]
   
   It insulates you from electricity.
   It protects you from poison.
   It affects your resistance to hostile enchantments.
   It makes you less stealthy.
 C - the amulet "Qimuker" (around neck) {Regen+ Dex+5 Slay+5}
   (You found it on level 5 of the Pits of Slime)   
   
   [amulet of regeneration]
   
   It affects your dexterity (+5).
   It affects your accuracy and damage with ranged weapons and melee attacks
   (+5).
   It increases your rate of regeneration.
 I - an uncursed ring of positive energy
 L - the ring "Woet" {*Contam rPois MP-9 Str+2 Int+10}
   (You found it in a treasure trove)   
   
   [ring of strength]
   
   It affects your strength (+2).
   It affects your intelligence (+10).
   It protects you from poison.
   It affects your magic capacity (-9).
   It causes magical contamination when unequipped.
 Q - an uncursed ring of protection from fire
 Z - an uncursed ring of protection from cold
Wands
 U - a wand of digging (2/24)
Scrolls
 b - 23 scrolls of identify
 d - 4 scrolls of magic mapping
 j - 5 scrolls of silence
 m - 13 scrolls of fear
 o - 22 scrolls of teleportation
 t - 26 scrolls of remove curse
 x - a scroll of brand weapon
 z - a scroll of summoning
 E - 4 scrolls of amnesia
 H - 7 scrolls of blinking
 J - 12 scrolls of recharging
 R - 5 scrolls of immolation
 W - 2 scrolls of enchant weapon
 Y - 10 scrolls of fog
Potions
 g - 5 potions of brilliance
 h - 3 potions of mutation
 i - a potion of invisibility
 n - 9 potions of curing
 p - 11 potions of flight
 q - 3 potions of agility
 w - 5 potions of magic
 B - 5 potions of resistance
 F - 3 potions of might
 G - 3 potions of cancellation
 O - 6 potions of ambrosia
 P - a potion of haste
 T - 3 potions of heal wounds
Miscellaneous
 r - 6 phantom mirrors
 S - a fan of gales
Comestibles
 c - 2 chunks of flesh
 f - 22 bread rations
 l - 32 royal jellies
 s - 28 meat rations
 D - 38 fruits


   Skills:
 O Level 27 Fighting
 - Level 16.3 Maces & Flails
 + Level 23.4 Armour
 * Level 18.0 Dodging
 - Level 25.0 Shields
 O Level 27 Invocations


You had 26 spell levels left.
You didn't know any spells.

Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (15/15)            Temple (0/1) D:5            Lair (5/6) D:10
  Swamp (4/4) Lair:4       Spider (4/4) Lair:4        Slime (5/5) Lair:5
    Orc (2/2) D:9             Elf (3/3) Orc:2        Vaults (5/5) D:14
  Crypt (0/3) Vaults:3     Depths (5/5) D:15            Zot (5/5) Depths:5

Altars:
Ashenzari
Cheibriados
Dithmenos
Fedhas
Gozag
Kikubaaqudgha
Nemelex Xobeh
Qazlal
Uskayaw
Vehumet
Wu Jian
Xom
Yredelemnul
Zin
The Shining One

Shops:
D:5 }   D:8 [   D:9 ([   D:11 :   Orc:2 :*[%   Elf:2 }   Elf:3 [   Vaults:2 %

Portals:
Hell: Depths:1 Depths:2 Depths:3 Depths:4 Depths:5
Abyss: Depths:1 Depths:4
Pandemonium: Orc:2 Depths:3 Depths:5
Ziggurat: Depths:4

Annotations:
D:12 1 runed door
D:13 exclusion: orange crystal statue


Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations

You are partially covered in iridescent scales. (AC +2)
Your skin changes colour to match your surroundings (Stealth+).
You are agile. (Dex +2)


Message History

You hear a bark!
You hear a bark!
You hear a bark!
You hear a bark!
A jackal comes into view.
The jackal barks!
You hammer the jackal like a gong!!!
You kill the jackal!
Qazlal accepts your kill.
A jackal comes into view.
You block the jackal's attack. x2
You puncture the jackal!
You kill the jackal!
Qazlal accepts your kill.
No target in view!
There is an open door here.
There is a staircase leading out of the dungeon here.
There is a staircase leading out of the dungeon here.
You hear a shout!
You have escaped!
Lately I've been trying to skip Lair entirely, just as a personal challenge. Turns out most characters are poorly equipped to handle Dungeon -> Orc -> Depths, especially since I seem to be playing Crawl like a hack'n'slash, and 90% of my button presses are tab.

First Qazlal win, he's pretty fun but was a definite hurdle with this particular playstyle. I cleared Depths fine, but my attempts at Abyss for my first rune were pretty pathetic. I didn't have the regen amulet at that point, so attrition was too much for me. I figured it would be much worse in Pan or the Hells, where the last thing you want is the entire level to gather around your sparkling ass, so I had to settle for Slime as my first rune. Got Vaults as my second, but Abyss was still outside my capabilities, so in the end I was fuggit, let's go lair and end this.

Before ransacking Elf for an eveningstar (the only one that spawned in the entire game) I was debating enchanting up a Demon whip of Pain and going Necromancy, but with Qaz I wouldn't be able to use most necro abilities, cuz minions just croak in the clouds. I might try a DsMo^Kiku or something, just to try out melee/necro.

All in all it seems in later versions of Crawl melee/charms-hexes hybrids are stronger lategame than pure melee fighters. Also things keep getting more and more difficult, but this may have more to do with my conviction Crawl owes me something for however years of play since 0.5.2. I should probably start getting a lot more adaptable - I used to prefer starting a character with a rigid idea of what build I want, but lately loot is a lot more limited so this works out less and less.

Adapting is unfun and boring though, so ... nah.

[Retropunch]

Lately I've been trying to skip Lair entirely, just as a personal challenge. Turns out most characters are poorly equipped to handle Dungeon -> Orc -> Depths, especially since I seem to be playing Crawl like a hack'n'slash, and 90% of my button presses are tab.

Yeah, I've tried that challenge too, but Lair is kinda a 'must do' in crawl it seems. The enemies are relatively easy, don't resist anything too strongly and the layout works for most builds (plus there isn't much ranged stuff) - missing out on the xp and loot is such a blow too.

It's good to have for newer players or when you're playing a deliberately difficult playstyle, but I wish there was an alternative.

[Inarius]

I just began this game. (It's more a PTW, actually).
Any advice ?

[frostshotgg]

Don't forget you have consumables. This is not an RPG where you wind up saving everything to stacks of 99 by the end and never needed them, you will need your potions and scrolls, and you will need them frequently. Use them.

[George_Chickens]

I just began this game. (It's more a PTW, actually).
Any advice ?

Spriggans make for great berserkers, and you should abandon Trog at around level five.

Also, cool things happen if you abandon a 'good' god for an evil god.

[Graven]

I just began this game. (It's more a PTW, actually).
Any advice ?

Crawl is pretty good at explaining itself nowadays, so examine every single enemy, item and spell.

Also check search for things here:
http://crawl.develz.org/wordpress/bots

Always retreat several turns BEFORE you thing it's time to retreat - you can always re-engage if you're still alive.

Minotaur Berzerker to start with, use autoexplore ("O") liberally, but don't go overboard on autofight ("tab").

Don't forget to note what killed you, and think a bit on what you could've done to not die right there. Look through your inventory - were there consumables you could've used? Other items you should have been wearing?

Basically play, check things out, and remember what killed you before.