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[Graven]

Haha, thanks a lot, but I don't really feel like a good player, especially lately

I always thought hybrids were harder than pure builds mid-game, but picked up increasingly more steam the later the game goes, as spells just grant so much more options.

Of course they also require much more careful play, and considering how capable I've proven of wasting 50+ AC berserkers in Depths, not sure it's the best possible route.

We currently have the following:

Code: [Select]

Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.19-a0-1627-gc26532d (tiles) character file.

Gravenous the Spear-Bearer (Merfolk Skald)         Turns: 18557, Time: 00:35:05

Health: 115/115    AC: 17    Str: 16    XL:     14   Next: 25%
Magic:  23/23      EV: 17    Int: 21    God:    Okawaru [******]
Gold:   1124       SH:  0    Dex: 14    Spells: 4 memorised, 16 levels left

rFire  . . .      SeeInvis .    V - +0 demon trident (venom)
rCold  . . .      Gourm    .    J - +0 swamp dragon armour
rNeg   . . .      Faith    .    (no shield)
rPois  +          Spirit   .    (no helmet)
rElec  .          Dismiss  .    n - +0 cloak
rCorr  .          Reflect  .    a - +2 pair of gloves {Str+3}
MR     +....      Harm     .    (no boots)
Stlth  +.........               U - amulet of regeneration
                                I - +6 ring of intelligence
                                m - +3 ring of protection

@: no status effects
A: change form in water, swift swim, stealthy swim
a: Heroism, Finesse, Renounce Religion


You are on level 10 of the Dungeon.
You worship Okawaru.
Okawaru is exalted by your worship.
You are not hungry.

You have visited 3 branches of the dungeon, and seen 17 of its levels.

You have collected 1124 gold pieces.

Inventory:

Hand Weapons
 f - a +0 trident of flaming
 S - the +3 glaive "Wynuem" {freeze, Str+8}
   (You acquired it on level 4 of the Lair of Beasts)   
   
   It has been specially enchanted to freeze those struck by it, causing extra
   injury to most foes and up to half again as much damage against particularly
   susceptible opponents. It can also slow down cold-blooded creatures.
   
   It affects your strength (+8).
 V - a +0 demon trident of venom (weapon)
 X - the +3 glaive of Might {elec, +Inv Int+4}
   (Okawaru gifted it to you on level 5 of the Lair of Beasts)   
   
   Occasionally, upon striking a foe, it will discharge some electrical energy
   and cause terrible harm.
   
   It affects your intelligence (+4).
   It lets you turn invisible.
Missiles
 x - 6 javelins of returning (quivered)
Armour
 a - a +2 pair of gloves of strength (worn)
 n - a +0 cloak (worn)
 r - a +0 helmet
 G - the +16 crystal plate armour of the Eternal Void {rC++}
   (Okawaru gifted it to you on level 2 of the Lair of Beasts)   
   
   It greatly protects you from cold.
 J - a +0 swamp dragon armour (worn)
Jewellery
 m - a +3 ring of protection (left hand)
 y - an uncursed ring of resist corrosion
 I - a +6 ring of intelligence (right hand)
 U - an amulet of regeneration (around neck)
Wands
 K - a wand of acid {zapped: 7}
 M - a wand of confusion
 R - a wand of paralysis
Scrolls
 b - a scroll of magic mapping
 g - 4 scrolls of enchant armour
 i - 3 scrolls of blinking
 l - 3 scrolls of identify
 o - 5 scrolls of teleportation
 p - 4 scrolls of fog
 q - 2 scrolls of noise
 s - 2 scrolls of brand weapon
 N - 3 scrolls of amnesia
 P - 2 scrolls of remove curse
 Q - a scroll of recharging
Potions
 e - a potion of invisibility
 h - 8 potions of curing
 j - a potion of cancellation
 k - 2 potions of agility
 u - 5 potions of heal wounds
 w - a potion of magic
 z - 5 potions of flight
 B - a potion of lignification
 C - a potion of haste
 D - a potion of berserk rage
 E - 2 potions of might
Books
 c - a book of Battle   
   
    Spells                             Type                      Level
    a - Infusion                     Charms                        1
    b - Shroud of Golubria           Charms/Translocation          2
    c - Song of Slaying              Charms                        2
    d - Spectral Weapon              Hexes/Charms                  3
    e - Regeneration                 Charms/Necromancy             3
 F - a book of Debilitation   
   
    Spells                             Type                      Level
    a - Corona                       Hexes                         1
    b - Slow                         Hexes                         2
    c - Gell's Gravitas              Hexes/Translocation           3
    d - Inner Flame                  Hexes/Fire                    3
    e - Cause Fear                   Hexes                         4
    f - Leda's Liquefaction          Hexes/Earth                   4
 L - a book of Maledictions   
   
    Spells                             Type                      Level
    a - Corona                       Hexes                         1
    b - Ensorcelled Hibernation      Hexes/Ice                     2
    c - Confuse                      Hexes                         3
    d - Tukima's Dance               Hexes                         3
    e - Dazzling Spray               Conjuration/Hexes             3
Comestibles
 d - 10 bread rations
 t - 11 meat rations
 v - 4 chunks of flesh
 A - 2 slices of pizza
 T - 9 fruits
 W - 5 beef jerkies


   Skills:
 + Level 12.2 Fighting
 - Level 14.2 Polearms
 * Level 7.5 Armour
 - Level 10.1 Dodging
 - Level 6.3 Spellcasting
 - Level 0.2 Hexes
 - Level 13.1 Charms
 - Level 7.0 Invocations


You have 16 spell levels left.
You know the following spells:

 Your Spells              Type           Power        Failure   Level  Hunger
a - Infusion              Chrm           ####         1%          1    None
b - Shroud of Golubria    Chrm/Tloc      ####......   1%          2    None
c - Regeneration          Chrm/Necr      ####......   3%          3    #......
d - Spectral Weapon       Hex/Chrm       ####....     3%          3    #......


Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (10/15)            Temple (1/1) D:5            Lair (6/6) D:8
  Swamp (0/4) Lair:2       Spider (0/4) Lair:3        Slime (0/5) Lair:5
    Orc (0/2) D:10       

Altars:
Fedhas
Gozag
Nemelex Xobeh
Okawaru
Ru
Sif Muna
Yredelemnul
Beogh
Jiyva

Shops:
D:7 %
Not sure whether to go two-hander, or focus a bit on throwing. I'd go 1hander + shield, especially since I already have a Demon trident, but not sure how the damage output is going to be, and the devs have added some real nasties in endgame and extended the last few versions.

I've also never played with Throwing, so might be a decent time to try it out.

edit: Throwing did not help me not get blown up in Elf. Somehow it feels like while the mechanics have been simplified the game itself is a ton more difficult nowadays. ...alternatively I might be bad

[RoguelikeRazuka]

I just can't get it, why does the wiki article state vine stalker is an easy species to play with such certainty? Even if it may actually be so, I haven't so far become sensible of this whatsoever, for I've already buried like 12 characters of this species, all of which were intended to be fighters complemented with a set of various helpful spells like Repel Missiles, Shroud of Golurbia etc, some sort of a battlemage but without damaging spells in their repertoire, but the abysmal HP pool coupled with the subpar aptitudes for both offensive and defensive skills make it a real pain progressing through the game with a vine stalker designed mainly for melee (the worhipped deity being Makhleb). Up to now, pretty much every least threatening encounter my character's got engaged in was going to end lethally unless I resorted to some kind of contrivance like summoning Makhleb's servants or using curare or poison needles, but I just can't rely on these all the time.

What's your strategy on building such characters?

[flame99]

Hm...I've never really played them, so I don't know, but maybe it would be more prudent to start off focusing on magic for the early game, and then grow into melee through the mid game

[Sarrak]

12 characters? Not even nearly enough. Bury more!
Makhleb on species with fast regen is excessive and not really needed. You'd achieve better results with other melee-oriented gods (even magical ones - Vehumet can regen MP, which is like your second health pool, for example... And he doesn't even require you to use magic!)

Above that, not much could be said, as I don't know how you play VS. Maybe you charge into melee without regenerating HP first, or use weapon instead of relying on your magic-sapping mouth. Maybe you just skill wrongly, becoming weak both in magic and melee.

[Arcvasti]

Speaking as someone who won a VSFi in the last tournament, Vine Stalkers are really good pure melee dudes. Like, I'd say the same tier as DD/Mi/Gr in a lot of ways. You definitely need to stock up pretty heavily on AC/SH/EV and do some pillardancing on the early levels, but you end up really freaking robust later on. Spirit shield and the ability to quickly restore Mp is even more useful then your Regen 3 in the midst of combat. I'd personally hold off on getting even low-level spells until you've gotten a rune or two[Around Vaultsish]. Pure mage Vine Stalkers, the few times I've tried them, have been annoying. Spirit Shield disables your offense if you blink wrong and your low health and high regen mean that tedious kiting is the only valid ranged strategy.

re: VS God Choice:

I used Ru. The passive deflection gives you even more effective hp and Draw Out Power neatly fixes your lack of HW. Plus you can sacrifice Drink pretty safely, since its biggest draw[Heal Wounds] is useless to you.

[heydude6]

From my personal experience with vine stalkers, you're supposed to play them like your average modern military shooter protagonist. That is, pop out of cover and attack your enemies, then when your health gets too low for your comfort, hide and wait for that boosted regen to bring you back to full health before that orc army even realizes that you're gone.

or use weapon instead of relying on your magic-sapping mouth.

Wether you use a weapon or go unarmed doesn't affect the chance of the bite proccing. It's quantity of attacks that has the biggest benefits. As a vine stalker you want your endgame weapon to be either a shortblade, unarmed, or demon weapons.

Maybe you just skill wrongly, becoming weak both in magic and melee.

Vine stalker's aptitudes naturally make them weak with their attacks. You get around this by having the endurance to wear an enemy down slowly over time rather than beat it in your first battle. You don't really have this advantage with other races, since by the time you gain your health back, so did your target making it as if you never fought them the first time.

What's your strategy on building such characters?

Personally, I play vinestalkers as either stealth characters or mages. Their tankiness allows you to get away with making a few mistakes that would kill less robust races (who doesn't love being oneshotted as a spriggan just because you spent one turn in melee range of a hydra) and the regen allows you to kite enemies without the boosted movement speed of a spriggan or a vampire's bat form. Obviously those two are better for kiting but the regen has more utility and is attached to a race with an okay aptitude for conjurations.

[Sarrak]

Thanks for correcting me on bite proccing. I forgot for a moment that auxilary attacks may trigger with weapons, despite playing recently with Vp and Mi

[frostshotgg]

VS are pretty great. They have free antimagic, which also drains mana, which is fantastic because mana = health, and the bite is guaranteed to proc if you have 49 STR+DEX which is pretty easy.

Best god on VS is Pak, bar none.

[EnigmaticHat]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if you get a fast weapon you'll use your auxiliary attacks faster right?

[heydude6]

Anyway, I just got back from a vinestalker AE game where I managed to gain a heavily enchanted vampiric dagger as well as the book of sky. Guess what happened.

I was fighting pikel and I miscast static discharge (with a 12% chance of failure) while I had swiftness active, stairs 7 tiles away, and only 9 health left. Pikel was heavily wounded, but that still doesn't excuse my stupidity!

[Graven]

Heyoooo

I felt bad about my recent string of stupid deaths, so I decided to go back to basics. A MiBe. The classic coming-of-age tale: a boy, his Gold Dragon Armour, an Executioner's Axe, and a Crossbow.

Code: [Select]

Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.19-a0-1627-gc26532d (tiles) character file.

17449581 Gravenous the Intangible (level 27, 239/239 HPs)
             Began as a Minotaur Berserker on Sept 20, 2016.
             Was the Champion of the Shining One.
             Escaped with the Orb
             ... and 15 runes on Sept 21, 2016!
             
             The game lasted 03:08:17 (89088 turns).

Gravenous the Intangible (Minotaur Berserker)      Turns: 89088, Time: 03:08:17

Health: 239/239    AC: 51    Str: 28      XL:     27
Magic:  10/10      EV: 27    Int:  4      God:    the Shining One [******]
Gold:   10302      SH:  0    Dex: 20 (21) Spells: 2 memorised, 26 levels left

rFire  + + +      SeeInvis +    A - +9 executioner's axe (antimagic)
rCold  + + .      Gourm    .    E - +12 gold dragon armour
rNeg   + + +      Faith    .    (shield currently unavailable)
rPois  +          Spirit   .    f - +2 hat {SInv}
rElec  .          Dismiss  .    s - +2 cloak {MR+}
rCorr  .          Reflect  .    e - +0 pair of fencer's gloves {+Riposte Dex+6}
MR     +++..      Harm     .    p - +2 pair of boots {run}
Stlth  ..........               Y - amulet "Urutil" {rPois rF+ Regen+ Dex+2 SInv}
                                o - ring of Miracles {rF+ EV+3 Slay+6 Stlth+}
                                x - ring "Faraopnaim" {rF+ rC+ rN+ Slay+6}

@: very slightly contaminated, glowing, quick
A: retaliatory headbutt, fangs 1, horns 2, yellow scales 2, deterioration 1,
frail 1, low mp 1, poison resistance, regeneration 1, screaming 2, weak 2,
evolution 1
a: Divine Shield, Cleansing Flame, Summon Divine Warrior, Renounce Religion
0: Orb of Zot
}: 15/15 runes: barnacled, slimy, silver, golden, iron, obsidian, icy, bone,
abyssal, demonic, glowing, magical, fiery, dark, gossamer


You escaped.
You worshipped the Shining One.
The Shining One was exalted by your worship.
You were not hungry.

You visited 17 branches of the dungeon, and saw 89 of its levels.
You visited Pandemonium 1 time, and saw 48 of its levels.
You visited the Abyss 2 times.
You visited 1 bazaar.
You also visited: Ice Cave and Desolation.

You collected 14104 gold pieces.
You spent 3802 gold pieces at shops.

Inventory:

Hand Weapons
 z - a +9 triple crossbow of holy wrath
 A - a +9 antimagic executioner's axe (weapon)
Missiles
 C - 2344 bolts
Armour
 e - the +0 pair of fencer's gloves (worn) {+Riposte Dex+6}
   (You acquired it on level 4 of the Shoals)   
   
   It affects your dexterity (+6).
 f - a +2 hat of see invisible (worn)
 p - a +2 pair of boots of running (worn)
 s - a +2 cloak of magic resistance (worn)
 E - a +12 gold dragon armour (worn)
Jewellery
 h - an uncursed ring of protection from cold
 o - the ring of Miracles (right hand) {rF+ EV+3 Slay+6 Stlth+}
   (You found it on level 5 of the Pits of Slime)   
   
   [ring of evasion]
   
   It affects your evasion (+3).
   It affects your accuracy and damage with ranged weapons and melee attacks
   (+6).
   It protects you from fire.
   It makes you more stealthy.
 w - an uncursed ring of wizardry
 x - the ring "Faraopnaim" (left hand) {rF+ rC+ rN+ Slay+6}
   (You found it on level 3 of the Crypt)   
   
   [ring of positive energy]
   
   It affects your accuracy and damage with ranged weapons and melee attacks
   (+6).
   It protects you from fire.
   It protects you from cold.
   It protects you from negative energy.
 K - an uncursed ring of see invisible
 S - the ring of Ocvaikaa {rCorr rElec MR+ Str+3}
   (You bought it in a shop on level 5 of the Depths)   
   
   [ring of resist corrosion]
   
   It affects your strength (+3).
   It insulates you from electricity.
   It affects your resistance to hostile enchantments.
 U - an uncursed ring of teleportation
 Y - the amulet "Urutil" (around neck) {rPois rF+ Regen+ Dex+2 SInv}
   (You took it off a fire giant on level 2 of the Depths)   
   
   [amulet of regeneration]
   
   It affects your dexterity (+2).
   It protects you from fire.
   It protects you from poison.
   It lets you see invisible.
   It increases your rate of regeneration.
Wands
 r - a wand of hasting (2/9)
 y - a wand of teleportation (7/9)
 H - a wand of digging (3/24)
 I - a wand of hasting (4/9)
Scrolls
 j - 3 scrolls of enchant armour
 k - 36 scrolls of remove curse
 l - a scroll of holy word
 m - 10 scrolls of recharging
 n - 3 scrolls of amnesia
 q - 4 scrolls of fear
 t - 4 scrolls of silence
 u - 14 scrolls of teleportation
 v - 12 scrolls of magic mapping
 D - 3 scrolls of blinking
 F - 18 scrolls of identify
 J - 6 scrolls of fog
Potions
 B - 5 potions of cure mutation
 G - 13 potions of agility
 L - 9 potions of curing
 M - 5 potions of resistance
 O - 9 potions of flight
 P - 3 potions of cancellation
 X - 4 potions of might
Books
 W - a book of Dreams   
   
    Spells                             Type                      Level
    a - Ensorcelled Hibernation      Hexes/Ice                     2
    b - Silence                      Hexes/Air                     5
    c - Darkness                     Hexes                         6
    d - Shadow Creatures             Summoning                     6
Miscellaneous
 b - 5 phantom mirrors
 g - a figurine of a ziggurat
 i - a phial of floods
 Q - a box of beasts
 T - a fan of gales
 Z - a lamp of fire
Comestibles
 a - 14 beef jerkies
 c - 21 bread rations
 d - 22 meat rations
 N - 74 fruits


   Skills:
 - Level 25.0 Fighting
 + Level 26.6 Axes
 - Level 26.3 Crossbows
 - Level 22.7 Armour
 O Level 27 Dodging
 - Level 6.1 Spellcasting
 O Level 27 Charms
 - Level 20.4 Invocations
 - Level 13.4 Evocations


You had 26 spell levels left.
You knew the following spells:

 Your Spells              Type           Power        Failure   Level  Hunger
a - Deflect Missiles      Chrm/Air       ##........   98%         6    #######
b - Haste                 Chrm           ###.....     1%          6    #######


Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (15/15)            Temple (0/1) D:7            Lair (6/6) D:9
 Shoals (4/4) Lair:2       Spider (4/4) Lair:3        Slime (5/5) Lair:6
    Orc (2/2) D:10            Elf (3/3) Orc:2        Vaults (5/5) D:13
  Crypt (3/3) Vaults:3       Tomb (3/3) Crypt:3      Depths (5/5) D:15
   Hell (1/1)                 Dis (7/7) Hell            Geh (7/7) Hell
    Coc (7/7) Hell            Tar (7/7) Hell            Zot (5/5) Depths:5

Altars:
Ashenzari
Cheibriados
Hepliaklqana
Kikubaaqudgha
Nemelex Xobeh
Okawaru
Trog
The Shining One
Jiyva

Shops:
D:13 ??[[   Orc:2 (%(*   Shoals:1 (   Shoals:4 ?   Vaults:5 ?   Depths:1 }}=   Depths:5 =*}*

Portals:
Hell: Depths:1 Depths:2 Depths:3 Depths:4 Depths:5
Abyss: Depths:3 Depths:4
Pandemonium: Depths:3
Ziggurat: Depths:4
Trove: Vaults:1 (give 3 potions of resistance)

Annotations:
Depths:4 exclusion: 2 statues
Coc:7 exclusion: ice statue


Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations

You reflexively headbutt those who attack you in melee.
You have a pair of horns on your head.
You have very sharp teeth.
You are mostly covered in yellow scales. (AC +3)
Your body sometimes deteriorates upon taking damage.
You are frail. (-10% HP)
Your magical capacity is low. (-10% MP)
Your system is resistant to poisons. (rPois)
Your natural rate of healing is unusually fast.
You sometimes yell uncontrollably at your foes.
You are very weak. (Str -4)
You evolve.


Message History

You kill the smoke demon!
The Shining One accepts your kill.
No target in view!
There is an open door here.
An Orb Guardian comes into view.
The Orb Guardian completely misses you.
You slash the Orb Guardian!
You bite the Orb Guardian, but do no damage.
The Orb Guardian is lightly wounded.
The Orb Guardian barely misses you. You furiously retaliate! You headbutt the Orb Guardian! You riposte. You slice the Orb Guardian!! You headbutt the Orb Guardian!
The Orb Guardian is severely wounded.
You hit the Orb Guardian.
You headbutt the Orb Guardian, but do no damage.
The Orb Guardian is almost dead.
The Orb Guardian completely misses you. You furiously retaliate! You headbutt the Orb Guardian! You riposte. You slice the Orb Guardian!!
You kill the Orb Guardian!
There is an open door here.
HP restored.
There is a staircase leading out of the dungeon here.
You have escaped!
I felt I had lost my sense of Crawl, the many changes of the newer versions kind of distorting my views of what is dangerous and what is not. I wanted to play something simple yet still somewhat challening, to help me better judge what is a threat and what isn't, and ultimately make me a better player at the current version.

"Hey dude, here's an Executioner's Axe, a Gold Dragon hide, a Triple Crossbow, a bunch of slaying and scrolls of enchant stuff!"

...
...
Tabtabtabtabtabtabtabtabtbbattatbatbatbatbabtbbtabatbbatbatbtabtabtbatbatbabtbat

Thoughts and prayers:

- Not sure how meaningful the crossbow was. I three-shot Lom Lobon with it, but then again I could've just as easily went over and punched his face. Antimagic is pretty nice in extended, about on par with Holy I'd say. Of course if I wasn't Cleaving stuff I'd probably be much better off with a Holy Triple Crossbow, since that thing just shredded stuff. Maybe without +12 slaying things might be different? I WOULDN'T KNOW

- Did a full clear of Depths before getting rune, since Spider is Satan, and Shoals is ranged Satan.

Code: [Select]

An Executioner comes into view.
The Executioner completely misses you. You furiously retaliate! You headbutt the Executioner! You riposte. You slice the Executioner!!
The Executioner's magic leaks into the air.
You headbutt the Executioner! You bite the Executioner.
You kill the Executioner!
The Shining One accepts your kill.
- Dude tried to hit me and I exploded into a cartoonish whirlwind of punches and bites without any input on my side. Thanks, Fencer's Gloves!

- Went into the desolation, got hit for like 75% of my 120+ hp within 3 turns and promptly ran out. NEVER AGAIN

-  44316 | Vaults:5 | HP: 14/316 [ettin/dire flail (25)]

- You wanna know how many spells I cast with those 27 Charms? Zero. I just didn't know what to train, and kept hoping I'd get Portal Projectile. Seriously I never once hasted with spellcasting, I just stuffed potions in my gob, and once those ran out smacked myself over the head with a stick of hasting.

- I expected to hate extended, what with the removal of all anti-malmutate stuff, but a +12 slaying and a bunch of defenses meant I just tabbed through Mnoleg's entire level without even looking at my mutations screen. I've not cured a single one in extended, save for a Berserkitis I got in the abyss, before going in tomb. Also having it all take like, 45 minutes definitely helped negate the tedium.

Didn't learn shit about playing better though, next hybrid's gonna die in vaults just the same. C'est la vie

[Graven]

That's a pretty sweet Mummer win there. You could've probably done a few Zig levels with the shatter, but then again, you could've horribly died. A good call to win there, I think.

Also did your Minotaur have 60+ int? ... why

As for me, I think I found my breaking point. It's when I've done Lair and Orc, but am too weak (or know I don't play carefully enough) to get a Lair rune.

Elf is currently a god damn death trap, I'm certainly not doing depths if I'm afraid of Snake, so... what do I do? Man up and go to one of the Lair branches obviously, but that mostly ends up with me dead, especially if it's Spider or Shoals.

I'm not sure how fond I am of the shortening of branches. The experience may be kept relatively the same, but this leads to:
- More dangerous enemies in less space
- Less ambient loot

And indirectly, another stupid death. This also feels like a slight (or major? can't really tell) nerf to hybrids - you get less safe ways to skill up, since the midgame will be your weakest point in general.

[Damiac]

I've watched the way DCSS development works, and keeping the harder combos winnable is not something they think about, at all.  There's a culture of "this game just keeps getting easier" even though it's demonstrably false, yet the dev team balances as if it were true.

That works out OK for those of us who have been playing a long time and getting better and better at the game, however I think it's a viewpoint that is out of touch with reality. 

It seems the devs are for some reason unwilling to make the very easiest combos harder, they instead weirdly focus on making the methods that make weak characters work unviable. 

It's hard to criticize too much (not that it stops me) because even with my various problems with the crawl dev team, it's hard to deny it really is a tightly developed little game, really well done honestly.  And a lot of their design philosophy is right on point.  I think most of the problems are those that come naturally to a small tight knit (some might even say insular) community.

[Graven]

***************PERSONAL OPINIONS BELOW***************

Currently, Crawl is extremely easy to get into (for a roguelike), as all the necessary information is available in-game, there are no stupid spoilers, and yes, easier combos are relatively easy. This is a good thing. Remember the Good Old Times of "man I hope I can finally find a fucking plant, so I can punch it for an hour and get my DeFe his first level in Fighting"? Or consumable destruction? Wand identification? None of these are good, and even if they have a role in forcing tactical decisions they come at a tedium cost.

Btw you can find traces of the old philosophy in extended, as it tends to get way less attention - Hell effects, some Pan Lords spell sets, etc. It has gotten a lot beter, but it's still more prone to binary play - either you can smash the things, or you can't and need to go away.

On the other hand, I find current Crawl the hardest it's ever been to actually win. There are dangerous enemies added to every branch, branches have been systematically shortened, and there are systems to punish various playstyles - Mana Vipers and Naga Sharpshooters against spellcasters demolishing Snake, Entropy Weavers to force (nearly) irresistible corrosion, not to mention end-game stuff like Juggernauts and Caustic Shrikes. This is also a good thing, even if it's a bit frustrating - these things enforce difficulty in a way that can be played around, even if I myself tend to whine way too much.

The devs do make some, well... "questionable" choices, let's call them. They tend to remove stuff without trying to fix it, and don't seem to have all that great understanding of why certain things are powerful and others not. The mutation "overhaul" is an example, at least in my opinion. Then again, Crawl is not the only roguelike in the world, and if it becomes too different from what I enjoy, I'll just stop playing.

PUZZLE TIME!

You have the following character:

Code: [Select]

Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.19-a0-1627-gc26532d (tiles) character file.

Gravenous the Warrior (Demonspawn Monk)            Turns: 41761, Time: 01:18:57

Health: 228/228    AC:  5    Str: 26    XL:     22   Next: 15%
Magic:  34/34      EV: 27    Int: 40    God:    Cheibriados [******]
Gold:   1751       SH: 23    Dex: 31    Spells: 8 memorised, 3 levels left

rFire  + . .      SeeInvis +      - Unarmed
rCold  + . .      Gourm    .    T - +0 robe {rN+}
rNeg   + . .      Faith    .    a - +2 shield of Resistance {rF+ rC+ MR+}
rPois  +          Spirit   +    (helmet unavailable)
rElec  .          Dismiss  .    u - +2 cloak {rPois}
rCorr  .          Reflect  +    (gloves unavailable)
MR     ++++.      Harm     .    (boots unavailable)
Stlth  ++........               A - +5 amulet of reflection
                                S - ring of the Mage {Wiz MR++ Int+3}
                                R - ring of see invisible

@: very slow
A: claws 3, hooves 3, horns 3, blink, powered by pain 1, robust 2, magic shield,
magic regeneration
a: Blink, Bend Time, Temporal Distortion, Slouch, Step From Time, Renounce
Religion
}: 2/15 runes: decaying, serpentine


You are on level 5 of the Depths.
You worship Cheibriados.
Cheibriados is exalted by your worship.
You are hungry.

You have visited 7 branches of the dungeon, and seen 37 of its levels.
You have also visited: Trove.

You have collected 4556 gold pieces.
You have spent 2805 gold pieces at shops.

Inventory:

Armour
 a - the +2 shield of Resistance (worn) {rF+ rC+ MR+}
   (You bought it in a shop on level 2 of the Orcish Mines)   
   
   It protects you from fire.
   It protects you from cold.
   It affects your resistance to hostile enchantments.
 u - a +2 cloak of poison resistance (worn)
 T - a +0 robe of positive energy (worn)
Magical Staves
 B - an uncursed staff of wizardry
Rods
 e - a +0 lightning rod (9/9)
   (You found it on level 5 of the Dungeon)
Jewellery
 g - an uncursed ring of resist corrosion
 q - an uncursed ring of positive energy
 A - a +5 amulet of reflection (around neck)
 R - a ring of see invisible (left claw)
 S - the ring of the Mage (right claw) {Wiz MR++ Int+3}
   (You bought it in a shop on level 5 of the Depths)   
   
   [ring of wizardry]
   
   It improves your spell success rate.
   It affects your intelligence (+3).
   It affects your resistance to hostile enchantments.
 W - an uncursed ring of protection from cold
 Z - the amulet of the Thoughtful Moons {Gourm rC+ Stlth+}
   (You found it in a treasure trove)   
   
   [amulet of the gourmand]
   
   It allows you to eat raw meat even when not hungry.
   It protects you from cold.
   It makes you more stealthy.
Wands
 i - a wand of disintegration
 r - a wand of digging
 y - a wand of iceblast
 N - a wand of acid
 Q - a wand of disintegration {zapped: 11}
Scrolls
 d - 2 scrolls of recharging
 f - 12 scrolls of teleportation
 l - 7 scrolls of amnesia
 m - 2 scrolls of blinking
 v - 8 scrolls of magic mapping
 z - 4 scrolls of enchant armour
 D - a scroll of silence
 M - 14 scrolls of remove curse
 O - 2 scrolls of fear
 U - a scroll of summoning
 X - 4 scrolls of fog
 Y - 9 scrolls of identify
Potions
 h - 9 potions of curing
 j - 8 potions of heal wounds
 k - 10 potions of brilliance
 o - a potion of resistance
 s - a potion of cancellation
 t - 2 potions of cure mutation
 x - 6 potions of flight
 E - 2 potions of ambrosia
 F - 7 potions of might
 J - 4 potions of lignification
 L - 3 potions of magic
 V - a potion of invisibility
Books
 G - a book of Transfigurations   
   
    Spells                             Type                      Level
    a - Irradiate                    Conjuration/Transmutation     5
    b - Statue Form                  Transmutation/Earth           6
    c - Hydra Form                   Transmutation                 6
    d - Dragon Form                  Transmutation                 7
 K - a book of the Sky   
   
    Spells                             Type                      Level
    a - Summon Lightning Spire       Summoning/Air                 4
    b - Airstrike                    Air                           4
    c - Silence                      Hexes/Air                     5
    d - Deflect Missiles             Charms/Air                    6
    e - Conjure Ball Lightning       Conjuration/Air               6
    f - Tornado                      Air                           9
Miscellaneous
 I - a phial of floods
Comestibles
 b - 12 bread rations
 c - 5 slices of pizza
 p - 13 meat rations
 w - 55 fruits
 C - 14 beef jerkies


   Skills:
 - Level 20.2 Fighting
 + Level 12.7 Dodging
 - Level 1.7 Stealth
 - Level 15.0 Shields
 - Level 11.4 Unarmed Combat
 - Level 8.5 Spellcasting
 - Level 14.4 Transmutations
 - Level 14.2 Earth Magic
 - Level 13.5 Invocations


You have 3 spell levels left.
You know the following spells:

 Your Spells              Type           Power        Failure   Level  Hunger
a - Statue Form           Tmut/Erth      #######..    1%          6    #####..
b - Petrify               Tmut/Erth      #######.     1%          4    None
c - Blink                 Tloc           N/A          1%          2    None
d - Apportation           Tloc           ###.......   1%          1    None
e - Passage of Golubria   Tloc           N/A          9%          4    None
f - Regeneration          Chrm/Necr      ###.......   3%          3    None
g - Deflect Missiles      Chrm/Air       ###.......   95%         6    #####..
h - Tornado               Air            ###.......   100%        9    #######


Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (15/15)            Temple (1/1) D:6            Lair (6/6) D:8
  Swamp (4/4) Lair:4        Snake (4/4) Lair:3        Slime (0/5) Lair:5
    Orc (2/2) D:10            Elf (0/3) Orc:2        Vaults (0/5) D:13
 Depths (5/5) D:15            Zot (0/5) Depths:5   

Altars:
Ashenzari
Cheibriados
Dithmenos
Elyvilon
Fedhas
Gozag
Hepliaklqana
Kikubaaqudgha
Makhleb
Nemelex Xobeh
Okawaru
Qazlal
Ru
Sif Muna
Trog
Uskayaw
Vehumet
Xom
Yredelemnul
Zin
The Shining One
Beogh
Lugonu

Shops:
D:4 *   D:10 ?   D:11 (}}*[   Orc:2 [[}%   Snake:3 *   Depths:3 (   Depths:5 }=}

Portals:
Hell: Depths:1 Depths:2 Depths:3 Depths:4 Depths:5
Abyss: Depths:1 Depths:2 Depths:3 Depths:4 Depths:5
Pandemonium: Depths:3 Depths:4
Ziggurat: Depths:5

Annotations:
D:8 exclusion: 2 doors
Swamp:2 exclusion: Roxanne, Roxanne


Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations

You have claws for hands.
You have hooves in place of feet.
You have a pair of large horns on your head.
You sometimes gain a little power by taking damage.
You are very robust. (+20% HP)
When hurt, damage is shared between your health and your magic reserves.
You regenerate magic rapidly.
You can translocate small distances at will.

What do you do with it, and what skills do you train? Give your answers below, and I'll tell you what I am actually doing later.

Weeeee!

[heydude6]

I would recommend you go to vaults next. If you can, find a book with a good ranged option (best case scenario iron shot) and begin training that. You can probably afford to forget tornadoe at this point. Unless you take some big risks visiting branches above your level, you probably won't be able to cast tornadoe at vaults 5. You might get shatter cast able if you happen to have that though.

If the proper ranged option alludes you, focusing on maxing out unarmed since that skill reduces your minimum delay all the way to the final level.

Btw, do you plan on ever training armour? Cause if not I would recommend upgrading to a large shield at some point (if you can find replacements for the resistances that is). The main arguement against the upgrade is that those points are better invested in armour but if you aren't doing that then it may be a good idea to break the meta.