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[Sarrak]

I wholly agree that priests/high priests and wizards/sorcerers are impossible to manage, their summons soak XP, sorcerers are obsessed with raising orc corpses and they are fine to blink wherever they want / not heal the dying orc beside them. In other words, they are shit.

Now, warlords. They are great - if you raise them to high enough levels (and they continue to level up till 27). To do so, I use the strategy opposite of what you mentioned. I let my orcs fight nearly all fights for me, only stepping in against great threats. In 0.16~0.17 it was a norm to take 20+ orcs from Mines and return to add 1-2 knights back to the experienced group. Max warlords you can manage is 6, but 2 or 3 tend to die regardless in Vaults/Hell/...

Dangers to the experienced, geared warlord:
1) Teleported alone from your group in monster-abundant area (can fight his way back, but better recall)
2) Confusion+Water (instadeath)
3) Torment+AoE damage (rF, rC is great to have!)
4) Mutations (still not sure if Beogh/leveling heals them)
5) Too much poison from AoE in Snake Pits.

Abyss is the only area you can't take orcs to/from (Zigs allow recalling converted followers later - so give them artifacts). And Pan is just as dangerous to orc warlord as it is to the player.

I'll start new game now as HOFi to see if the overall situation changed.

[EnigmaticHat]

If you allow your orcs to do the bulk of the fighting, you'll get a good team for whatever area you're in through natural selection.

[Aoi]

I liked the idea of Beogh, much like ye old timey Necrmancers whose minions didn't rot and could take their minions across floors.

Then I took my army of warlords and knights(?) into the Snake Pit where the weak ones died instantly and the strong ones decided to wander off, leaving me facing a pile of random stuff that shredded me.

The new god of memories has kind of a similar feel, but with a minion that's actually USEFUL... Wonder how easy it would be to mod in a custom skill set for it...

[Ozarck]

I just walked through Snake, Shoals (flew, really), and Elf. I've been picking up interesting equipment at pretty regular intervals throughout the game so far.

Code: [Select]

Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.17.0 (tiles) character file.

113 the Warrior (Hill Orc Fighter)                 Turns: 50617, Time: 07:12:00

Health: 189/189    AC: 40    Str: 37    XL:     20   Next: 67%
Magic:  34/34      EV:  9    Int: 15    God:    Okawaru [******]
Gold:   4247       SH: 15    Dex: 24    Spells: 3 memorised, 14 levels left

rFire  + . .     SeeInvis .     N - +9 demon trident (elec)
rCold  + + .     Clarity  .     O - +8 pearl dragon armour
rNeg   + + .     SustAt   +     M - +0 shield {reflect}
rPois  .         Gourm    .     d - +5 hat of Temperance {Int+4}
rElec  +         Spirit   .     B - +0 cloak
rCorr  .         Warding  .     y - +0 pair of gloves "Qolat" {rElec Regen+ Slay+3}
rMut   .         Stasis   .     v - +4 pair of boots "Ymeadok" {rN+ Str+4 Int+4}
MR     ++...                    X - amulet "Owkuzxel" {rC+ Regen+ Str+5 Dex-2}
Stlth  ..........               w - ring of Spite {rF+ MR+ MP+9 Str+4 Dex+4}
                                a - ring of Alarr {SustAt rC+ Dex+7}

@: very resistant to hostile enchantments, extremely unstealthy
A: screaming 1, wild magic 1
a: Heroism, Finesse, Renounce Religion
}: 2/15 runes: serpentine, barnacled


You are on level 1 of the Vaults.
You worship Okawaru.
Okawaru is exalted by your worship.
You are not hungry.

You have visited 7 branches of the dungeon, and seen 39 of its levels.
You have also visited: Labyrinth, Ice Cave and Volcano.

You have collected 4547 gold pieces.
You have spent 300 gold pieces at shops.

Inventory:

Hand Weapons
 c - the +10 hand axe "Zab Megg" {freeze, Str+3 Int-5 Dex+5}
   (Okawaru gifted it to you on level 14 of the Dungeon)   
   
   It has been specially enchanted to freeze those struck by it, causing extra
   injury to most foes and up to half again as much damage against particularly
   susceptible opponents. It can also slow down cold-blooded creatures.
   
   It affects your strength (+3).
   It affects your intelligence (-5).
   It affects your dexterity (+5).
 N - a +9 demon trident of electrocution (weapon)
 T - the +5 spear "Ultimatum" {holy, rElec rC+ MP+9 Dex+2}
   (You took it off a minotaur in a labyrinth)   
   
   It has been blessed by the Shining One to cause great damage to the undead
   and demons.
   
   It affects your dexterity (+2).
   It protects you from cold.
   It insulates you from electricity.
   It affects your magic capacity (+9).
 U - the +9 hand crossbow "Hori Zeoh" {velocity, +Blink rElec rPois}
   (Okawaru gifted it to you on level 3 of the Snake Pit)   
   
   Any bolt fired from it inflicts extra damage.
   
   It insulates you from electricity.
   It protects you from poison.
   It lets you blink.
Missiles
 g - 179 bolts
 o - 6 steel bolts
 J - 19 poisoned bolts
Armour
 d - the +5 hat of Temperance (worn) {Int+4}
   (You acquired it on level 1 of the Lair of Beasts)   
   
   It affects your intelligence (+4).
 v - the +4 pair of boots "Ymeadok" (worn) {rN+ Str+4 Int+4}
   (Okawaru gifted it to you on level 1 of the Snake Pit)   
   
   It affects your strength (+4).
   It affects your intelligence (+4).
   It protects you from negative energy.
 y - the +0 pair of gloves "Qolat" (worn) {rElec Regen+ Slay+3}
   (Okawaru gifted it to you on level 3 of the Lair of Beasts)   
   
   It affects your accuracy and damage with ranged weapons and melee attacks
   (+3).
   It insulates you from electricity.
   It increases your rate of regeneration.
 B - a +0 cloak (worn)
 C - the +8 fire dragon armour of the Cicada {rF++ rC- Regen+ Str+3 Dex+3}
   (You found it on level 3 of the Elven Halls)   
   
   It affects your strength (+3).
   It affects your dexterity (+3).
   It greatly protects you from fire.
   It makes you vulnerable to cold.
   It increases your rate of regeneration.
 M - a +0 shield of reflection (worn)
 O - a +8 pearl dragon armour (worn)
Jewellery
 a - the ring of Alarr (left hand) {SustAt rC+ Dex+7}
   (You found it in a labyrinth)   
   
   [ring of sustain attributes]
   
   It sustains your strength, intelligence and dexterity.
   It affects your dexterity (+7).
   It protects you from cold.
 k - an uncursed ring of poison resistance
 r - an uncursed ring of see invisible
 w - the ring of Spite (right hand) {rF+ MR+ MP+9 Str+4 Dex+4}
   (You found it on level 3 of the Elven Halls)   
   
   [ring of magical power]
   
   It affects your strength (+4).
   It affects your dexterity (+4).
   It protects you from fire.
   It affects your resistance to hostile enchantments.
   It affects your magic capacity (+9).
 F - the ring of Xylelat {rN+ Dex+6}
   (You found it on level 3 of the Elven Halls)   
   
   [ring of positive energy]
   
   It affects your dexterity (+6).
   It protects you from negative energy.
 Q - an uncursed amulet of clarity
 S - the ring of Zyreunt {*Confuse rC++ MR+ AC+2}
   (You found it in a labyrinth)   
   
   [ring of protection]
   
   It affects your AC (+2).
   It greatly protects you from cold.
   It affects your resistance to hostile enchantments.
   It may confuse you when you take damage.
 X - the amulet "Owkuzxel" (around neck) {rC+ Regen+ Str+5 Dex-2}
   (You took it off a deep elf summoner on level 3 of the Elven Halls)   
   
   [amulet of regeneration]
   
   It affects your strength (+5).
   It affects your dexterity (-2).
   It protects you from cold.
   It increases your rate of regeneration.
Wands
 s - a wand of digging (2)
 z - a wand of lightning (9)
Scrolls
 f - 10 scrolls of remove curse
 h - 9 scrolls of teleportation
 p - 7 scrolls of fear
 u - a scroll of fog
 D - 4 scrolls of summoning
 Z - 5 scrolls of blinking
Potions
 i - 2 potions of haste
 j - 3 potions of agility
 l - a potion of resistance
 q - 13 potions of curing
 I - 3 potions of heal wounds
 L - a potion of cancellation
 W - 4 potions of might
Miscellaneous
 b - a plain deck of changes {drawn: 2}
 K - a plain deck of cards
Comestibles
 e - 12 bread rations


   Skills:
 - Level 18.6 Fighting
 - Level 17.9(20.3) Axes
 + Level 14.8(17.3) Polearms
 + Level 14.2 Crossbows
 - Level 18.6 Armour
 - Level 10.3 Shields
 + Level 0.0 Translocations
   Level 0.3 Ice Magic
 + Level 0.3 Poison Magic
 - Level 7.5 Invocations
 - Level 7.2 Evocations


You have 14 spell levels left.
You know the following spells:

 Your Spells              Type           Power        Failure   Level  Hunger
a - Cure Poison           Pois           #.........   97%         2    ###....
b - Apportation           Tloc           #.........   87%         1    ##.....
c - Blink                 Tloc           N/A          97%         2    ###....

I got the pearl dragon armor pretty early - after I had switched to chain mail, but before I even began considering plate. but it was +0 at the time - I've put all the enchants on it.

Seriously, Snake was embarrassingly easy, though there was one or two places that made me a little nervous. Shoals likewise. Elf? Well, I couldn't believe it was over. I used one scroll of silence in the end chamber, but mostly just stood in the hallway outside that chamber and stabbed with my ... I think it was the demon trident of electrocution, mostly.

I'm getting pretty excited, but I am afraid I am setting myself up for a big letdown. I feel like this character can get through vaults to 4 without trouble, but wold struggle a bit more than my previous one did in Crypt. I doubt the Depths will be much challenge either. I am not entirely sure I will be properly set up from Slime pits -  Ido have an amulet of rCorr, but rMut I still don't have, for one thing. I will probably try vault 5 this go-round. If I make it that far.

[miauw62]

On branches, my best run was a GaFi a long time ago, and I got Shoals and Spider. Spider obviously wasnt that hard with poison immunity and my sweet randart weapon, but I hated how bland and uninteresting the levels were. (I died in Shoals to invisible mages. Permaflying makes Shoals less bad (but still bad))

[Ozarck]

my ring of seeInvis helped me out there. Handy.

What do yo mean "on branches" though? I'm not entirely clear what you are referencing.

[miauw62]

branches of the dungeon

[debvon]

I wholly agree that priests/high priests and wizards/sorcerers are impossible to manage, their summons soak XP, sorcerers are obsessed with raising orc corpses and they are fine to blink wherever they want / not heal the dying orc beside them. In other words, they are shit.

Now, warlords. They are great - if you raise them to high enough levels (and they continue to level up till 27). To do so, I use the strategy opposite of what you mentioned. I let my orcs fight nearly all fights for me, only stepping in against great threats. In 0.16~0.17 it was a norm to take 20+ orcs from Mines and return to add 1-2 knights back to the experienced group. Max warlords you can manage is 6, but 2 or 3 tend to die regardless in Vaults/Hell/...

Dangers to the experienced, geared warlord:
1) Teleported alone from your group in monster-abundant area (can fight his way back, but better recall)
2) Confusion+Water (instadeath)
3) Torment+AoE damage (rF, rC is great to have!)
4) Mutations (still not sure if Beogh/leveling heals them)
5) Too much poison from AoE in Snake Pits.

Abyss is the only area you can't take orcs to/from (Zigs allow recalling converted followers later - so give them artifacts). And Pan is just as dangerous to orc warlord as it is to the player.

I'll start new game now as HOFi to see if the overall situation changed.

Damn, maybe orcs aren't as shit as I thought then if you can just let them fight everything for you and get them to 27. I was always sure they'd just get killed. I'll have to try again

[Sarrak]

So. On a fifth or sixth try I got the orc train rolling... An it proved to be even easier than in 0.16. Many good mutations, awesome reflection amulets, etc.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Here is the party after clearing all 15 Dungeon floors, without excursions elsewhere [two of them survived up till now].
Wanting to grind some more fresh meat for the middle parts of the game - weaker orcs are needed as buffer - gathered Orc:1 and went to the Lair.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Nearly died while trying to clear Hell by baiting its denizens back to my army. It was a bit early for this. Afterwards, went Shoals and nearly got my ass handled to me by javelins [worn piety amulet instead of reflecting one and decided not to change]. All squishes and some knights met their fate there.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Storing loot in the Vestibule. Team is semi-complete, but needs much more experience. To the Orc:2 we go, then to a disappointing Elf:3 [the only worthy weapon was shattered when unequipped; although got an easy Abyssal rune].

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Snake Pit conquered. I sent as much weaker orcs to their deaths as I could. Time has come to concentrate on elites.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Depths cleared, Saint Roka acquired and fitted with gold dragon armor [best possible armor for orcs, since it has pretty much all needed resists, AC, and can be upgraded by Beogh].


EDIT1:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Vaults aftermath. After clearing first butch with stairdance-army surprise, got arrogant and lost half a dozen knights to dragons. Not that it matters at this moment.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Poor TRJ. It is impossible to survive recall of ~ten warlords from all sides. Surprisingly, no one of note died to spawned slimes.


EDIT2:

Annnd... Tomb'd [while stairdancing its second level]. Two torments and third one from curse combined with iron shot to the face upstairs. By this moment my party consisted of Saint Roka, 5 warlords (one, amusingly, the very first orc converted) and two knights - many orcs somehow died in Crypt:3 while I run ahead. Ahoy.

[Aoi]

So I took Hepl on a caster, planning to use my ancestor as a tank while I send up doom from a distance, except I realized a major flaw to my plan: I have absolutely no ideas what spells can be safely fired through allies (or in the case of AoEs, used around them). Any suggestions for direct damage spells that meet this requirement, or if there's a wiki tag that specifically addresses this?

[DeKaFu]

I haven't tried any of the new gods, but just hearing about this ancestor one...
I feel like solely from a flavor perspective I'd be much happier with a permanent monster buddy than some guy. Some kind of unique critter that grows up alongside your character and gains new powers/abilities/mutations as you progress. Maybe it could shapeshift? Possibly something vaguely like the summoner's eidolon from Pathfinder (which I recently skimmed the entry for, I've never played Pathfinder).

This is entirely the monster-raising-obsessed side of me talking here, but I can't imagine ever wanting to choose a random dude with armor/magics over a two-story-tall firebreathing beetle as a friend to cover my back, is all.

Wouldn't that be a million times cooler? It just feels like a wasted opportunity.

[flame99]

It would, though doesn't fit in with the current theme (That is, ancestors--no matter how weird of a race you're playing I'm sure it isn't the descendant a two-story-tall fire-breathing beetle ). Maybe something like an animist theme, with your minion being a sort of spirit animal?

[Aoi]

It would, though doesn't fit in with the current theme (That is, ancestors--no matter how weird of a race you're playing I'm sure it isn't the descendant a two-story-tall fire-breathing beetle ). Maybe something like an animist theme, with your minion being a sort of spirit animal?

Demigod or draconian might end up with something similar as an ancestor. (Though draconians are less likely to two-story-tall fire-breathing beetle...)

[Ozarck]

branches of the dungeon

Okaaaaaaaaay. I figured that much out myself.

Sarrak. That's impressive to me. Maybe I am jsut a bad player, since I haven't yet had my first win, in nearly 200 games, but nice work.

[DeKaFu]

It would, though doesn't fit in with the current theme (That is, ancestors--no matter how weird of a race you're playing I'm sure it isn't the descendant a two-story-tall fire-breathing beetle ). Maybe something like an animist theme, with your minion being a sort of spirit animal?

Well, I see no reason why demonspawn might not have a towering beetle or two in their heritage.

But yeah, I had something more like that in mind. Some kind of spirit-linked familiar. It could start out small and grow larger and more powerful as you level up. Start at acid-spitting housecat and work your way up to the sabretoothed griffonbear (that still spits acid). Maybe even choices for branching mutation/evolution paths, kinda like the ancestor's class choices. Since it would be a monster sustained by your spirit or whatever, having it re-summoned after it dies still makes perfect sense.

It wouldn't even be that hard to rework it. :/ I guess it's probably too late now, though... Makes me kind of sad.